E-tolling or E Thief?

[Citizen X]

Each individual must decide for himself or herself how they would approach e-tolling. As far as I’m concerned there’s currently no law that states one must buy an e-tag, as it cannot be presumed that one will use the road with gantries, one may use an alternative route. One also has the right to be billed and then appear in court via the summons process. I can’t see that one can be listed on a credit bureau as there is no credit involved i.e. personal loan, credit card, vehicle finance etc.

[Miro Bagrov]

Summons for count is only if you paid nothing after 3 warnings.

What you do is, you just pay R10 - R50, and then they will throw the case out window and have to start again from warning 1.

[ians]

IT is gona cost a lot more time and wasted money going to court, so people will just pay.

[Miro Bagrov]

As I understand the proposal by others - it's all about delaying and bleeding the system by requesting statements unnecessarily, delaying payments. As the Auditor General himself states in the SANRAL financial reports - the ability to claim the money is essential to keeping SANRAL from bankruptcy.

The idea is, that they can't take you to court 'if you paid something' even if that 'something' is less than 5% of what you owe. Because you 'did as best as you could'. You will never see court. just humour them with a monthly debit order of R5.... Agree?


.... And... Vote DA... and support COSATU, because only thanks to them the tolls were delayed several months

[Miro Bagrov]

The trick to avoid paying anything in SA is:

1. Find a basic human right
2. Prove you can't afford it
3. pay a fraction of what you owe

You will never see court or have issues. It is illegal under the current law to imprison people for failure to pay creditors. (google - 'impossibility of performance', common law, south africa")

[Dave S]

And what about them suspending your vehicle's license until your debt is paid? Which is their next logical step in forcing the population to pay?

[Citizen X]

Just to add to whatever has already been said on e-tolling….

A legal philosophy that supports the outcry of citizens against e-tolling

John Locke

Now not being the time for me to engage in philosophical discourse as I have to face a few philosophers in exams soon[discourse at this time would drive me crazy!!].

Notwithstanding this I have only fairly recently gained respect for John Locke and Critical Legal Studies in particular Dr Duncan Kennedy.

Prior to this I had respect for only one philosopher namely Karl Marx.

“The philosophers have only interpreted the world in various ways, the point is however to change it!” Karl Marx 1845.

I’m hoping that someone will build a picture of John Locke’s philosophy and the current outcry of citizens to e-tolling [I promise I will add my two cents on John Locke in due course] and the sheer relevance of his brain child to what is taking place in SA today.

The key directing question is: What would John Locke [an honorary founding father of the USA] say about e-tolling and how he would approach this situation?

To narrow things down, his views on a social contract between the state and citizens are relevant.




Photo[1]
Photo 2[2]

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[1] http://www.google.co.za/imgres?imgur...EwAAWikipedia: Accessed 25 November 2013

[2] Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Treatises_of_Government. Accessed 25 November 2013

[ians]

There are no long explanations, it is simple you pay and carry on with your life or you don't pay.

The big question, What are you going to do about it if you decide not to pay.

If it was a problem for some people they would just walk in a big group down the freeway and rip the thing to pieces, steal what they want and burn what is left, problem solved no gantry no toll fee.

[Citizen X]

WHERE’S YOUR E-TOLL PASSBOOK (ETAG)??

This is about restricting movement, in particular movement of the poor, enter the class struggle big time!

Though the apartheid government had more heinous reasons for the introduction of their repugnant passbook, as far as I’m concerned, the e-tag is a passbook!



Source photo:

https://www.google.co.za/?gws_rd=cr&ei=vuWSUozyM8eJ0AXdyYGIBA#q=picture+of+apartheid+passbook

I know that this analogy is harsh even for satirical standards but the e-tag is a passbook of sorts, not on racial lines but on income lines. Sanral even has something called the ‘day pass.’
In my opinion the tragic thing is that people in SA who are for a class struggle will by necessary implication what to differentiate themselves from the poor. Having an e-tag is just another way in which one can demonstrate a superior class so to speak. Many rich South Africans may not mind this differentiation at all.

[wynn]

So I live in East London and am a bit doff when it comes to which roads in Gauteng are going to be tolled, I follow my GPS to where I want to be and three months later I get a statement from SANRAL saying I owe Sixty rand for going there and back three months previously, I tell them "Impossible, I live in EL, someone has cloned my number plate, please proove that it was my vehicle, you need to send me a photo of the vin to do so?"

I saw on TV over the weekend about illegally manufactured numberplates and cloned numbers, this is going to be a nightmare for the authorities, SANRAL says that at least we will know our number has been cloned, so what? Is it my perogative to prove I was never there or theirs to prove I was.

Perhaps a little sticker next to the number plate that you change every month and when they send you a picture of your number plate you simply say my car has a picture of 'Daffy Duck' next my numberplate, not 'Goofy' like in your so called proof!

[Citizen X]

So I live in East London and am a bit doff when it comes to which roads in Gauteng are going to be tolled, I follow my GPS to where I want to be and three months later I get a statement from SANRAL saying I owe Sixty rand for going there and back three months previously, I tell them "Impossible, I live in EL, someone has cloned my number plate, please proove that it was my vehicle, you need to send me a photo of the vin to do so?"

I saw on TV over the weekend about illegally manufactured numberplates and cloned numbers, this is going to be a nightmare for the authorities, SANRAL says that at least we will know our number has been cloned, so what? Is it my perogative to prove I was never there or theirs to prove I was.

Perhaps a little sticker next to the number plate that you change every month and when they send you a picture of your number plate you simply say my car has a picture of 'Daffy Duck' next my numberplate, not 'Goofy' like in your so called proof!

Where's your day PASS?

[IMHO]

my car has a picture of 'Daffy Duck' next my numberplate, not 'Goofy' like in your so called proof!

Do not start new sh!t now. Before you know it, we must pay Disney royalties as well.

[IanF]

I wonder if SANRAL is guilty extortion for the Barbet gantry as an example the rates for a passenger car car goes from R3.00 to R17.40 depending whether you are an etag user registered etc. etc.
How to win friends and influence people NOT

[Miro Bagrov]

E-tag = Dom Pass

Ok, good one!

And what about them suspending your vehicle's license until your debt is paid? Which is their next logical step in forcing the population to pay?

That's against the consumer protection act. They can't force bundle products/services. Tolls is one service, and License is a totally different one. They cant make the one = the other.

But that's my legal opinion.

[Citizen X]

Receiving a bill by post: Since our South African Post Office is a shocking of a shambles by any ones standards, I wonder how the ‘post the bill,’ to you scenario is going to work out in real time and in practice.
1. In law, there is a rebuttable presumption that IF you receive an item BY registered mail , the recipient is deemed to have received it, I personally am unaware of any legal presumptions regarding ordinary post…