E-tolling or E Thief?

[Blurock]

Well soon the human body will get its own RFID tracking system “already being implemented in most first world countries. They do this in the name of Public safety. See with this device inside you they can find you identify where you where and if you had anything to do with whatever they are investigating.

Now this RFID can be linked to you income, bank, medical and tax system. You will no longer need money because it is inside of you, you will no longer need a credit card because it is inside of you. Your tax will be automated as will your transactions be. SO!!!!

Why is this a bad thing? Well if you turn this RFID off you cannot survive because you will not be able to buy food, go to the doctor get your medication or anything like that. Is it scary? YES! Why? Because who will be in control of those RFID chips and can you trust them?

666

[tec0]

666

Hi Blurock, if you don’t mind lets avoid a theological discussion. As you may know I have to avoid the local gangs. It makes it increasingly difficult to have free and open discussions. That said I sometimes wonder why so much control is needed. They claim it is for their security but who knows what the data, and personal info will be used for. Remember your every move will be tracked your every interaction will be noted on a computer and someone will be taking notes and using them.

See in South Africa the system will be used to track our cars. Now in the future I see you being billed for the use of your own car. This will force you to use public transport more and more. So who will benefit? Not the motorist and thus I question the need for this system. After all we paying a lot just for petrol, car registration and personal licence.

Also this system will cost us more then what it will benefit us so again I question motive.

[ians]

It is just a pity they cant put it to good use and reduce crime stats

[tec0]

It is just a pity they cant put it to good use and reduce crime stats

Crime exists because poverty exists. Get rid of poverty and you rid yourself of crime for the most part. Second aspect to crime are sadism and greed. Make all money traceable so that greed can be traced and sadism... simply state there will a time where we will find the cause and perhaps end it there. Still all are dreams till someone makes them a reality.

[Justloadit]

Well soon the human body will get its own RFID tracking system “already being implemented in most first world countries. They do this in the name of Public safety. See with this device inside you they can find you identify where you where and if you had anything to do with whatever they are investigating.

Now this RFID can be linked to you income, bank, medical and tax system. You will no longer need money because it is inside of you, you will no longer need a credit card because it is inside of you. Your tax will be automated as will your transactions be. SO!!!!

Why is this a bad thing? Well if you turn this RFID off you cannot survive because you will not be able to buy food, go to the doctor get your medication or anything like that. Is it scary? YES! Why? Because who will be in control of those RFID chips and can you trust them?

See in South Africa the system will be used to track our cars. Now in the future I see you being billed for the use of your own car. This will force you to use public transport more and more. So who will benefit? Not the motorist and thus I question the need for this system. After all we paying a lot just for petrol, car registration and personal licence.

Crime exists because poverty exists. Get rid of poverty and you rid yourself of crime for the most part. Second aspect to crime are sadism and greed. Make all money traceable so that greed can be traced and sadism... simply state there will a time where we will find the cause and perhaps end it there. Still all are dreams till someone makes them a reality.

Contradictory?

[IanF]

International history shows us that tolling projects, especially those of an electronic tolling (e-tolling) nature, suffer and are prone to failure if they do not have the committed acceptance and buy-in to the scheme by the public at large. This is generally happens when there is a lack of trust in the system, caused by poor transparency and high costs related to the project. In the case of Gauteng’s freeway tolling project, these issues have been highly prevalent as a result of a meaningless public engagement exercise, secret contracts (blanked out pages), many examples of misleading and false information and the competition commission’s exposure of high road construction costs through collusion. Add to this the fact that the Electronic Tolling Company’s JV won the tender of the e-toll collection at a cost to society of R8,4bn for the first five-year period (with a part thereof being capital costs over eight years), which indicates that well over R1bn per annum will go toward the administration and management costs before roads are paid for.

This if from Daily Maverick article by Wayne Duvenage
So the more people who don't register and wait for the invoice and dispute it the better. This is going to be an interesting few months.

[tec0]

Well I don't go to the main city anymore so it will not affect my life that much. But I have a bad feeling that every main road in the country will soon have an e-toll system. And that's not good

[Citizen X]

The invoice angle..

1. The ‘e-road,’ regulations was gazetted on 9 October 2013. It’s gazette number 36911.

2. The point of departure is section 6(5) of the schedule to the main Act which reads

If an alternate user does not pay the toll contemplated in terms of sub-regulation (4) within the time and at the place and subject to the conditions that the Agency may make known and determine, the Agency must within 32 days after the alternate user has used an e-road but after expiry of the grace period and unless the user has registered, send an invoice to the said user, to the last known address provided in terms of the National Road Traffic Act by such user, reflecting the amount of the toll payable and such invoice shall be paid by the said user on or before the date reflected on the invoice.

3. The use of the words ‘shall,’ and ‘must,’ are obligatory or mandatory. This is a peremptory statutory provision.

[Blurock]

Crime exists because poverty exists. Get rid of poverty and you rid yourself of crime for the most part. Second aspect to crime are sadism and greed. Make all money traceable so that greed can be traced and sadism... simply state there will a time where we will find the cause and perhaps end it there. Still all are dreams till someone makes them a reality.

I am sorry my friend, but there is no way in hell that I can agree with you. Some of the most honest people I know come from the poorest backgrounds. Poverty may cause the occasional petty theft when the opportunity arises, but organised crime (or instatutionalised crime in the case of government) is reserved for the rich and powerful.

Crime is fueled by greed and a lust for power. Look at politicians and big business and look at who is making the headlines. The amounts involved is much more than the tin of food or loaf of bread to feed a hungry child.

Why does 'nSkandla come to mind now...

[ians]

I agree, what a load of crap, the armed robbers arrive at your house in the latest BMW's, dressed in quality clothing, and they speak like they are educated. The criminals which would be targeted by the cameras would be the ones who have just left with your vehicle, not the petty thief who steals your weed eater to go make a living, they not the ones I am concerned about I have insurance for them.

The ones I and I am sure many other "South Africans" are concerned about are the ruthless armed robber, rapists who walk into your house through the front door armed better than the SADF and prepared to kill, rape and torture just for the hell of it, speak to you in a calm manner like they have done it on many occasion, knowing even the South African police services are scared of them, that is why they take so long to get to your house, in case they end up in a shoot out. They also know these people will kill their whole family if they interfere.

A good example is the recent hijacking in JHB, the oke stands in the middle of the road with an AK 47, no cops to be seen, quite honestly I believe if they where driving past they would also have just kept driving, I would bet money on it that those people where never caught.

We have handed in our firearms, there is no SADF anymore and the police caught handle the crime, which has got so out of control that communities are having to tackle the crime problem which is also a loosing battle...In a nutshell we are pretty F%^&*

[Jacques#1]

OK, to get back to E tolling. I did my first trip today, viva no toll viva.

What am I going to plead when standing in fornt of the judge: CALLING ALL LAYWERS!!

I cant plead poverty - a simple bank statement would scrap that argument.
I cant say im on debt councilling - P.S. This would be interesting? Driving around the highway costs more petrol, so you have to be on it, yet youre on debt councilling, what would the jusge say then?
Can you possibly say that your constitutional right to information was infringed...youre paying for something the government does not want to break down in detail?

Or, if you plead guilty, will the judge require you to pay the costs associated with the collection of moneys, or just the outstanding amount/warrant?

Im in the No toll resistance, how do we fight it in court in front of the judge, or do we pay the day before you get to court?

[Jacques#1]

come clever guys? what would you do to avoid the backyard death penalty in prison, yet resist like a politician?

[Dave A]

What am I going to plead when standing in fornt of the judge: CALLING ALL LAYWERS!!

I'm looking forward to hearing the arguments put forward too. And how it all pans out in the end. It's not a problem that faces me right now though.

However, I have put a bit of thought into what one should probably do until that all important first case sets the precedent. And that depends on your situation.

If you're a business and you're doing a lot of travelling on the tolled freeways, for goodness sake by an e-tag.
It's probably not financially beneficial to rigidly use the alternative routes.
The big bill recipients are going to be targets.
The stakes are just too high to gamble on how this is going to break.

Same probably applies to many folk who have a long daily commute where using alternative routes could pile an hour or more on your travelling time each day.

But if it costs you just 15 minutes a day or less to avoid a tolled route - it starts getting interesting.

Ultimately the best positioned folk to thumb their nose at the system are those who will get a bill of... under R100 per month perhaps (even better if it's under R50).
Gaming the system to force the extra admin burden would seem to head into the realm of reasonably significant protest action.

If it's viable to avoid a tolled route, or a toll gantry if you are in that middle ground (about R100 to R450 per month), by all means do it. Much lower than expected income will get noticed.

The much lower traffic levels on the tolled highways today certainly made the news. Will everyone be able to hold out long enough for government to blink first?

[tec0]

Truth is learn to live with it. What else can we do? Clearly the decision was made not caring what we think. So based on what we know they will just use the law to hurt you so badly that you have to pay them... But then are we still a free country? Makes one wonder

[Upstairs]

I decided to buy a motorcycle. By using backroads I can get to my destination in half the time it takes on their "improved " system. Ask any Joburger who sits in traffic every morning. I shall not fiil the pockets of these idiots. Look at the cost to implement and maintain the system compared to the profits they make. The goverment should not be allowed to make profit from its citizens. Have a look at this video clip about civil obedience. It is worth watching. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2li9E_94MA