E-tolling or E Thief?

[Dave S]

E-tag = Dom Pass

Ok, good one!



That's against the consumer protection act. They can't force bundle products/services. Tolls is one service, and License is a totally different one. They cant make the one = the other.

But that's my legal opinion.

But They do, and they will...

We know they shouldn't do that, but you go to the license dept. to get the new disc for your car and you're told they cannot give it to you until you have paid-up your tolls, so you argue with the clerk and they won't listen, what now? Get a lawyer? Now they give you your disc but who pays the lawyer? The clerk just claims he never said that he won't issue and you're stuck with a R10K lawyers bill. Don't ever believe that a Government department is not capable of breaking the law and making it very difficult for you, what's more is they will cover each others backs.

[IanF]

There are a lot of straws of the back of Zuma/ANC will this be the one that finally breaks the back.
It is an easy decision for me about using the tolls as I will use alternative routes.
I wonder how quiet the highways will be on December 3rd?

[pmbguy]

The ANC is its own worst enemy at the moment. The e-toll is a particularly large straw Ian, one that might might (small might) just brake the back of the KFC slurping parasite we fondly call the cANCer.


Alternative routes? What about PHASE 2?

DA responce:

The South African National Roads Agency Limited (SANRAL) will extend e-tolling even further in its second phase, according to Mmusi Maimane, Democratic Alliance (DA) premier candidate for Gauteng, who has again vowed to continue the fight against the controversial policy if he is elected in the province.
Maimane said it is expected at least 300 kilometres of Gauteng’s highways will be tolled in Phase two of the project, and that this was likely to be implemented “in the same manner as the existing phase; without proper consultation and at great expense”.

EFF DA ANC

[Miro Bagrov]

But They do, and they will...

We know they shouldn't do that, but you go to the license dept. to get the new disc for your car and you're told they cannot give it to you until you have paid-up your tolls, so you argue with the clerk and they won't listen, what now? Get a lawyer? Now they give you your disc but who pays the lawyer? The clerk just claims he never said that he won't issue and you're stuck with a R10K lawyers bill. Don't ever believe that a Government department is not capable of breaking the law and making it very difficult for you, what's more is they will cover each others backs.

Suing government for breaking government rules and government laws is the specialty and absolute favorite of many lawyers. Nice money there.
My approach is to make the government sue the government. That way the government pays for the government.
By approaching the Consumer Protection Commission in DTI building, Sunnyside. You will be letting the government sue the government.
(This is on every case that Consumer right is violated by SANRAL)

Make sense?

Just lodge cases, don't worry, one day you will get your result.

[Miro Bagrov]

My worry for all of South Africans in the middle class, especially the white community, is that many feel that they are in their own country fighting against another country, in which they also live. They are misinformed. It is very difficult to help them...

Example....
Many of you don't know our own rights - but you are also angry that your rights are violated. Then when you find out your rights, you then say to me that no one is there to enforce your rights... So it's a dead end trying to help anyone.

Just ...Support COSATU, Vote DA, and sue the government at every opportunity. Don't let anything slip. Let your yes be your yes, and your no be your no.
If you say you won't pay, don't pay.

I won't pay. I might give them R5 every month so that they can't sue me. I know my rights and I can play the law, so I know they can't touch me.

[Citizen X]

I really do wonder how this situation will turn out in practice, I’d like to see how in practice they implement the criminal offence stipulation. As even those very cops who will be presumably [as the worst case scenario] arresting you for your e-toll related criminal offence, regardless of whether it’s not having your e-toll account up to date, not having your day-pass you now basically the criminal! Many of the very police tasked with such a dutiful and chivalrous task are criminals themselves [not all but many], and the system is riddled with criminal corruption and fraud to the billions, yet this is not dealt with in the manner that it seems criminal offence

I wonder if the following scenario won’t somehow really play out:

Mr Policeman: “Hey you, YES you, where’s your bloody day PASS, don’t you know that it’s an offence not to have your day PASS. We may even just lock you up, that day pass now please!”


“Why can't we roam this open country? (open country)
Oh, why can't we be what we wanna be?
We want to be free. (wanna be free)

3 o'clock roadblock - roadblock - roadblock,

And "hey, mr. cop! ain't got no - (hey) hey! (hey, mr cop) -
(what ya sayin' down there?) - (hey) hey! (hey, mr cop) -
Ain't got no bloody birth certificate on me right now now."Bob Marley


Each individual must decide himself or herself how they going to respond or react in practice and in real time.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. If I get the sentiment correctly, what many opposed to e-tolling are saying is simply that the government of the day has betrayed it’s very own people for something which they have already paid for and feel is rightfully theirs to use freely.
So I suppose the real question is:

Has the government of the day really betrayed its own people in one or more ways?

[Jacques#1]

My 2 cents, wont pay. Will wait untill they serve me my summons, which i have signed, or someone has signed on my behalve in close relation to me. Only then I will pay THAT summons. I will let them spend every cent/rand in admin to send me my notices and invoices etc....and pay at point 99. I will do this every single time. I only use the highways once every two or so days, short distances, so my bills shouldnt be more than R10 or R20 per trip max, I will make sure their admin is around R10 or R20 before paying . I dont mind paying, I would gladly contribute a few bucks to the road, it does look nice, but its the principal of the whole thing. They still have not declared a cut off point, so once the roads are paid, and the austrians, and the government officials took their cut, and they built up a kitty to sustain the roads, why still pay....this is my whole issue with it. Fair enough, it cost a few bucks to build the road, they said a few months back that we would pay off the bills on the (then) tarrifs in a 2 year period, so why pay untill you die, or immigrate? Money making scheme.....the national bank of the taxpayer she is emty! The nkandla, and the nando kings have eaten too much, the parlament building with the R2mil art and the R100+ drinking glasses she is empty! let us exploit the people of the country in a new manner, we are smarter then they are, because we are politicians and they are the working class, they will never catch on

[Blurock]

How are we going to fight crime if the courts are clogged up with e-toll cases?

What will they do if everyone refuses to pay e-tolls. Will they take the softest target and make an example of him/her? Put him on the rack, torture him untill he pays or put him to the guillotine or burn him at the stake? Will they attach your car/home/furniture to pay for outstanding tolls?

Unless the people stand together on this one, e-tolls will spread like a cANCer to all the cities or metro areas in South Africa. Inflation wil double as businesses increase their prices to pay for the tolls. The unions will demand more because of the higher cost of living and SANRAL will double the price of e-tolls due to wage demands from its own people.

The sad thing is that the bulk of the cash collected will go to the shareholders in Austria. More revenue will flow out of the country as local businesses close and we have to import more. The balance of payments will go into an accelerated decline and the Rand will weaken, making imports even more expensive. This is an ongoing, downward spiral and the only winners are the foreign investors and their partners in government.

Who do we have to thank for this mess? The ANC.

[Citizen X]

Without unnecessary conclusions and suppositions, they’ve now associated the non-paying of e-tolls as a criminal offence. In essence you now in the very same category of the greater pool of criminals in SA. You now also the “criminal!” So if someone is charged with multiple counts of murder and you simply ask, what do you as the ‘non-paying,’ e-pass suspect has in common with the perpertartor accused of murder is that you both engaging in criminal activity. Oh you criminal! You are engaging in some criminal activity. You must be dealt with severely. The simple question: “Where’s your bloody e-pass?

[IanF]

Unless the people stand together on this one, e-tolls will spread like a cANCer to all the cities or metro areas in South Africa. Inflation wil double as businesses increase their prices to pay for the tolls. The unions will demand more because of the higher cost of living and SANRAL will double the price of e-tolls due to wage demands from its own people.

This is a one hell of leap in logic, look at petrol from R7/l a few years ago to R13/l now. I am sure this did not cause prices to double.
I hate the etoll but in reality it will cause a change in habits with staff moving closer to work or ecommute for 2 days a week etc. So this will dampen the effect. Also there are discounts for going outside peak hours so hopefully trucks will use the highways in non peak hours.
Basing the rate on 30c per k plus multiplying by 6 for non registered users is wrong.

A combination of plummeting road usage and an increasing number of users failing to pay e-tolls, says the publication, has resulted in a system that, as it stands, is not only unsustainable, but also a drain on the economy as administration fees eat into EP’s already scrawny profits.

From Itweb article
So there is precedent elsewhere that this doesn't work.
My take is lets all protest this in whatever way we feel will have the most impact without distorting the situation, we will leave that to SANRAL and the Government.

[ians]

The reference to a "freeway" is no longer valid, we gona have to start calling them Highways (highway robbery).

All it will take is one road block, a trip to a police cell for the night and you will be wanting to give your house away to pay a year in advance for tolls.

[Blurock]

This is a one hell of leap in logic, look at petrol from R7/l a few years ago to R13/l now. I am sure this did not cause prices to double.
.

You may be earning enough (with increases) not to realise that prices are doubling.

South African consumers' grocery costs are increasing at almost three times the rate of inflation, debt management company DebtBusters said on Friday.
"DebtBusters clients are spending more and more money on essentials due to the consistent rising costs of consumer goods and services," CEO Ian Wason said in a statement.
Most high-income clients - those earning R20 000 and above - suffered a 14.1% increase in food expenses in the past nine months.

You may be too young to remember, but in 1975 one could buy a Mercedes Benz 450 SLC for R50k or a 280 S class for R5500. A decent 100% wool suit for R120. In 1990 one could buy a decent 3 brm house in Durban North for R300k - R450k. You'll be lucky if you can get anything below R2m today. From 1980 to 2010 the nominal house prices in South Africa increased from R36k to R1,036k! Every cent added to the fiscus has a knock on effect and has an influence on price increases. That is why wasteful expenditure by the state may not be tolerated. Not even a new pool for your president.

Considering an average inflation rate of 6%, prices will double in less than 12 years. At 8% it will double in 9 years. We all know that prices don't rise in single figures...

[Dave A]

A few thoughts:

Slowing down or non-payment of the eTolls could be seen as passive resistance. Using the right to protest could make an interesting defence against a criminal conviction.

I see a law firm has offered to defend pro bono the first case pursued for non-payment. It will be interesting to see how that first test case plays out.

How much of the cost was wasted on sophisticated Electronic spyware to automate the direct billing system?

Perhaps the real objective was to deploy all that spyware. What other uses could all those photos be put to?

Big Brother is watching you

[Citizen X]

Conspiracy theories are plain compelling! They make for good entertainment, but some are so true, that you simply have to turn to the university of common sense to see.
Suppose I offered a legitimate business product i.e. a personal tracking device for you and I only gave you a certain set of facts and thereby information. Initially courtesy of me, I provide to you free of charge so that I can track you wherever you!

Suppose I further told you that someday, I’ll not only charge for this tracking device but I’ll create such a need in you that you’ll freely buy and keep it operational for my tracking purpose but because I’m an entrepreneur and I don’t necessarily want you to fully benefit so I design each tracking device so that it stops working on or about a maximum of 3 years after purchase thereby forcing you to repurchase.!
Interested in this device? Just have a look at your cell phone!! So, there’s not really a conspiracy here but the potential to reinvent and turn into conspiracy remains realistically open to the most devious of minds..

[tec0]

Well soon the human body will get its own RFID tracking system “already being implemented in most first world countries. They do this in the name of Public safety. See with this device inside you they can find you identify where you where and if you had anything to do with whatever they are investigating.

Now this RFID can be linked to you income, bank, medical and tax system. You will no longer need money because it is inside of you, you will no longer need a credit card because it is inside of you. Your tax will be automated as will your transactions be. SO!!!!

Why is this a bad thing? Well if you turn this RFID off you cannot survive because you will not be able to buy food, go to the doctor get your medication or anything like that. Is it scary? YES! Why? Because who will be in control of those RFID chips and can you trust them?