E-tolling or E Thief?

[Blurock]

Government should be there to serve the people, not the people to serve government. That is why they are called public servants!

Will they ever get the message?

This is why you have to vote.

[Miro Bagrov]

According to Dr Roelof Botha you will only be saving in many ways when you are in essence tolled. In fact according to him you will even be able to generate R8.84 for every rand that you spend! There are other benefits as well, you’ll save so much time that you’ll be able to spend more time with your family!
Here’s where Dr Botha’s spin goes horribly wrong. You are currently using those very roads that you will be charged for using at a later date. You using those roads now, only you not currently paying anything! Do you find that you currently have more time to spend with your family? You find that you spending less time in the traffic? Since you using the very same roads that you will be paying for using in the near future, are you currently making R8.84 rand just for using the roads for nothing at the moment?
The only difference going forward is that you will be paying for using the very same roads that you are currently using without paying anything! So how on earth will you be saving or how on earth will this be beneficial to you when you were paying nothing for using these roads yesterday and today you paying something? There is no way this logic will work with South Africans.
This is his exact words:
"Go to the trouble of calculating the time that you are likely to save, or probably are already saving, by using the Gauteng Freeway Improvement Project as opposed to if it had never occurred, and take that time saving and place a value on it in terms of what you can earn if you were to be productive or how fit you could become if you go to the gym or maybe improving the relationships with the rest of your family and spending more time with them."
Dr Botha we are using the very same roads today that we will be paying for tomorrow and there’s no added benefit. The only difference is that we will be paying for using these roads going forward. Nothing you say makes any sense. How do you go from a situation of not paying anything at all for driving on these very same roads to a situation where tomorrow you pay for using these very same roads???How can you save when all the trucks that transport consumer goods will be paying tolls? It's common sense that this will cause the price of food to go up!!!

Well Yes! It's important to keep the slaves happy somehow. Goodness forbid they realise that the 99% is still stronger than the greedy 1%. Must keep the slaves happy and make them think they are contributing. 'You are all very good slaves, people!'
They must feel good about the fact that this was an overprised project that did not remove traffic from the highway.
Why doesn't he ask me, would I rather sit in traffic 5-10 min longer or pay R800 p/m before he assumes?

That same project could have been done @ 10% of the cost if the government did not tender and make money for every halfwit investor and builder.

Any tolls, licenses, bribes, tenders, and interest on debt, are all a dead weight loss to society. Yes, that is the actual economics term 'dead-weight-loss'. The other economics term is 'excess burden' on producers and consumers in the economy.
This guy is not an EconomIST, he is a SpendIST... SPEND! SPEND! SPEND! Spend the government's money so you can be slaves to the government. So that every stupid unit of worthless currency they force you to earn can go out your pocket! Well DONE! You are killing Capitalism sir, keep it up!

[Dave S]

E-Thief, without a doubt!

[IanF]

dead-weight-loss

Miro thanks for teaching me a new economic term. I only did economics 1 years and years ago. Although it seems to refer more to the utility value of the tax. IE it is more beneficial cost wise to avoid the toll than to pay it, rather than a waste of money.

[Citizen X]

Miro thanks for teaching me a new economic term. I only did economics 1 years and years ago. Although it seems to refer more to the utility value of the tax. IE it is more beneficial cost wise to avoid the toll than to pay it, rather than a waste of money.

Miro I too sincerely thank you..'dead-weight loss,' makes perfect sense to me!

[Citizen X]

E-Thief, without a doubt!

Real highway robbery..

[Trickzta]

I'm posting my opinion with only having read up until page four (will catch up later) so with the possibility that I repeat a previous post being distinct I submit my pet peeve concerning this massive scam as the following.
Once E-Toll is in place, all commodities will become more expensive. The price increase will not always be accurate, but the error in calculation will always err on the side of the supplier. The bare basics, i.e. bread and milk will also cost more and therein lies the crime I dislike intensely. We already have too many that cannot afford the cost of living as things stand at the moment. As usual it is the poorest of the poor that will suffer most to fill the pockets of those that have aplenty.
The whole thing is a complete farce and illegal in my opinion. Nice thread. This episode is another nail in the coffers er coffin of a regime that has been targeted by the elite and earmarked for failure. Say goodbye to the present regime who under siege on many fronts are set to lose their 60+ % majority and possibly not even manage to retain a majority at the polls. (conspiracy theory - watch this space)

[Justloadit]

Ha Trickzta, whilst I agree with your post, the ones that will be the most affected, the poor, will be the first to stand in line to collect their KFC chicken leg, and mark his X on the appropriate square of the new oppressor, and then the next morning will burn down the very hall he used to vote in to show his feeling about the non service delivery he has not received in the last 20 years.

Very much like the residents of Bekkersdall, who instead of chasing the IEC out and demanding an apology from the MEC, who said that the ANC does not need their votes to win, should have registered, and at election time should vote for the opposition. To me that is showing my intentions with my cross, not abstaining and allowing the same party to remain in power.

[Dave S]

My question is who do you think the cANCer is blaming for (necessity of???) e-tolls? Do you honestly believe that the additional costs that are now going to be felt by low incomers (or no-incomers) are going to be blamed on the cANCer? I don't think so. Somehow the cANCer is going to make it look like it was a "Rich Whitey" idea and thereby they will continue to widen the racial gap and secure the vote.

The only way the cANCer can stay in power is by propagating racial sentiments and convincing an uneducated population that "Apartheid" was to blame for everything, and they will continue with this until "thy kingdom come", they know only one method of government, dictatorship, and cannot see beyond into the abyss of democracy, they are not interested in building a strong society that can work together and they will continue to do as they will, without any thought to consequence. When the consequences come, they will simply blame "Apartheid". "Apartheid", a single word that gives only one specific group the right to ignore the laws, piss on the constitution, and generally do as they please.

[Trickzta]

That same project could have been done @ 10% of the cost if the government did not tender and make money for every halfwit investor and builder.

I agree one hundred cement! Why not use the money made from the World Cup to pay for resurfacing and some widening of existing roads. How much of the cost was wasted on sophisticated Electronic spyware to automate the direct billing system? Let's see how many will thwart the system and bring it to its knees. This waste, waste, waste system of self enrichment must be stopped in its tracks. Peaceful Civil Disobediance is called for.

[wynn]

The local criminals have cottoned on to the idea that if you press a garage remote it jams the signal sent by the moter vehicle's locking remote! I wonder if after all the money spent on eToll gantries if this is not a simple means of #ucking them in the eye?

Just press your garage remote as you approach a gantry and keep it pressed until you have cleared the area.

Perhaps one of our techies can comment?

[ians]

People go on about crime and getting robbed by governments, anyway you look at either crime or issue like this we always get the wrong end, always the ones bending over to collect.

You pay the toll you get screwed, you don't pay the toll you get even more screwed, if nobody pays the toll and they scrap it you get screwed because someone has to pay for the money already spent.

Same thing with crime, you get robbed you loose they take your stuff, you pay insurance every month, they get caught and you get your stuff back you still get screwed because no you have to pay for courts and once they are convicted you pay a monthly premium to keep them in jail.

At the end of the day the man on the street must just pay...pay...pay.

[Dave S]

I'm sure someone will come up with some "jamming" device soon (which will get a banned shortly thereafter) same as was with the "speed laser" and "radar" sensors and "jammers". We can but hope.

[pmbguy]

You bet your ass they will. People will invent/use a device to jam, the device will get banned (but still used). Sanral will use another technology to overcome this. People will invent/use another device to overcome this (this will get banned, but still used).....and so on and so forth, it will be an e-toll arms race.

[IMHO]

it will be an e-toll arms race.

haha, well put!