E-tolling or E Thief?

[Justloadit]

These were the times I uploaded the pics to the forum.
The time when the pics were taken is actually printed right on top in very small print !

Yes, I was referring to the time of the pics taken, I am half blind, but it seems the date time was 2012, April 23 around 6AM on all three.

[Blurock]

"There is a roads levy of R1.97 per litre on petrol. This is supposed to be for the maintenance of roads, but the government is syphoning the fund off to use for other means."

Is this true? If so, it means that our own government is stealing from motorists! Where is the minister of transport and the minister of finance. Can they give us assurances and guarantees?

A levy on the fuel price is fair as EVERYONE pays when they use a road. The national road infrastructure can be maintained with minimum dilution for administration costs and without overseas shareholders. The proviso is that the fund must be applied for the roads infrastructure and not be syphoned off for parties, pals and backhanders.

[Citizen X]

There are so many flaws in any argument in favour of etolling!
Sanrall is the creditor and postulated that Sanrall staff or affiliates be given law enforcement powers. So this essentially means that your creditor, that you now owe money to, can enforce the law in their favour!
Problem: A body or person cannot be the judge in his own matter!The nemo iudex in sua causa rule (``no one should be judge in his own case'' ) the rule against bias or prejudice)

[Chrisjan B]

http://www.moneyweb.co.za/mw/view/mw/en/page295023?oid=569424&sn=2009+Detail&pid=287226

[Citizen X]

Good morning Chrismine,
That article is very disturbing to say the very least! You know what really grabs me is the fact that the Government has unlimited amounts of tax payer money to spend on litigation. It won’t even matter to the Government if the costs of their litigation comes to 100 million!
“JOHANNESBURG – Government plans to appeal an interim order to stop e-tolling saying that cabinet is committed “to the user pay principle and its decision on e-tolling as an efficient mechanism of collection”.The decision was taken at a cabinet meeting on Wednesday”

[Chrisjan B]

My thoughts exactly...

[Justloadit]

Well maybe we should start burning down the gantries, as this is the only message that government seems to understand. Peaceful demonstrations fall on deaf ears as it seems it just noise in the street. When violence is acted, then things seem to happen.

[Citizen X]

“We received the judgment only late yesterday afternoon.”


Government of South Africa v Citizens of South Africa!

[Chrisjan B]

http://www.timeslive.co.za/politics/2012/05/17/government-e-toll-appeal-doomed-to-fail-da

[Dave A]

The interim order issued by Judge Bill Prinsloo was unlikely to be overturned, as sound reasons had been given for it, Democratic Alliance spokesman Jack Bloom said.

"Government's appeal will just drag out the court proceedings, creating further uncertainty in the credit markets."

He was puzzled by the government's hard line as the SA National Roads Agency Ltd (Sanral) had itself indicated it would not appeal the case.

Jack should read this thread to get a clue on the vested interests involved

Pretty damn obvious why government is taking a hard line once you understand where the money comes from, and where the profits will be going.

[Citizen X]

“Its all about the money,
its all about the dum dum duh dee dum dum.
I don't think its funny.
To see us fade away.
Its all about the money,
its all about the dum dum duh dee dum dum.
and I think we got it all wrong anyway.”


“He was puzzled by the government's hard line as the SA National Roads Agency Ltd (Sanral) had itself indicated it would not appeal the case…”
Government:“The best things in life are free,But you can give them to the birds and bees, I want money, I want money, Give me your money, Just give me money.”

[Citizen X]

[Citizen X]

The etolling match
Introducing first: Fighting out of the red corner: The South African Government, the current reigning champion of corruption, nepotism, mal administration and poor service delivery. The reigning champion has unlimited amount of tax payer money to spend on litigation

Currently in the blue corner: We have the Citizens of South Africa, over worked and under paid, debt stricken and battling to cope with inflation. The people of South Africa must get donor funds for litigation
Now let’s’ have a clean fight here!
The Government of South Africa v The People of South Africa

[Phil Cooper]

QUESTION:

- The responsible party for the roads is SANRAL.

- They were sued, and the decision was made by them not to appeal.

- How come the Government can now appeal? They were not (theoretically) a party to the original case, or decision.

ie Do they have a legal interest in the case (other than being the primary (only) shareholder in SANRAL?

[Citizen X]

1.You exactly right Phil. It is beyond everyone why the Government is intervening here! But ofcourse the Government will have some spin for their intervention i.e national interest, we need to be responsible in paying any debt incurred for the Gauteng Freeway Improvement Project (GFIP).
2.The cabinet spoke person is simply expressing an opinion which is relative to who you are and how you perceive the situation. “Gauteng Freeway Improvement Programme had resulted in “major improvements” to Gauteng freeways.” How do you define or measure major improvement. Is it a major improvement when you developed on 10 km of road or when you developed 200km of road? Defaulting on debt? Since the Government is the guarantor of this project there need not be any default, they must find another way to pay for it.
3.“Manyi said the cabinet had, at its meeting, reiterated its commitment to the user-pay principle and its decision on e-tolling as an efficient mechanism of collection. “ Again, whether etolling is an efficient mechanism for collection is relative to who you are and how you perceive etolling. For the vast majority of South Africans it’s not an efficient mechanism if by efficient mechanism you mean charge South Africans to use our own roads. It’s an efficient mechanism for all the stakeholders in this project, it’s easy money!

4.You can tell that the Government does not care about the people of South Africa. They never consulted us properly about etolling(even though they say they did) and they just ignoring the litany of public outcry at present.

5.Reforandum:Since this affects all South Africans as they will roll etolling out to the other provinces, the best way forward is to see exactly what the will of the South African people is on this issue. Hold a referendum, and let us as South Africa vote on the matter! Based on our shameful history of bribery and corruption it begs the question is the appeal legitimate or is the real intention to hide corruption or to protect the true identities of those who will benefit financially?

6. When it comes to spending on such vital areas such as government hospitals then the government is not so willing, but to spend on etolling very willing. The following figures are old, i’m sure it’s worsened as at today’s date:

“At the worst hospitals, the conditions that patients are subjected to frequently
amount to a gross abuse of human rights. When patients must spend hours waiting
just for a file; when they must bring their own linen; stay in wards infested with
vermin and reeking of human waste; or share a bed with another patient, and when
hospital buildings are infested with grime and rubbish and one nurse is expected to manage an over-crowded ward single-handedly, then it is patently obvious that the rights of patients are not being respected and that urgent action is required.
Rob Ferreira is the third largest hospital in Mpumalanga. It serves a community ofabout 550 000 people and takes referrals of complicated cases from Barberton andShongwe provincial hospitals. But the 350-bed hospital is famous for all the wrong reasons.
Vacancy rates at this hospital are virtually destroying its ability to provide care to the nearly half a million people who it serves:
• There are 109 posts for doctors, but only 36 are filled (a 67% vacancy
rate).
• The hospital has fewer than 50% of the nurses it needs (356 out of 694).
• The hospital needs 12 pharmacists - it only has one.
• It only has four of the 20 specialists it needs.
• It only has four of the ten dentists it needs.”
“In 2005, 26 babies in the intensive care unit died of klebsiella, a bacteria caused by poor hygiene, at Mahatma Gandhi Hospital in Durban. The source of the bacteria was the intravenous formula fed to the babies through drips. One batch of infected IV formula was being used to feed a number of babies in an attempt to cut costs. “Inadequate handwashing practices” introduced the bacteria to the IV formula. However, no one was held responsible for these deaths – presumably because there was a chain of negligence stretching from the ward staff to the province, which had been told by the hospital that it’s neonatal intensive care unit was overcrowded and understaffed.”
“ Malfunctioning equipment “This is particularly serious for equipment used in case of emergencies. Resuscitation trollies are often not properly equipped, staff members are not trained to use these and there is sometimes a shortage of oxygen.”
For the aforementioned critical areas the government is not so keen to pay but for etolling they only very willing. WHY????
“Get up, stand up! Stand up for your rights! Get up, stand up! (Get up, stand up!)
Don't give up the fight! (Life is your right!),Get up, stand up! (So we can't give up the fight!)
We sick an' tired of-a your ism-skism game -You can fool some people sometimes,
But you can't fool all the people all the time.,So now we see the light (What you gonna do?),
We gonna stand up for our rights! “