Smoking at work........

[HR Solutions]

It is because of people like you that more abortions are being done each day in the name of employment. But this to was predicted actually. See this isn't about smoking it is about oppression. People like you cannot tolerate others but you haven't learned the hardest most challenging lesion yet. It is only yours if you can hang on to it...

You want to take away... then it will be taken away from you.

You may be big mouth now but one-day when you are hapless and frail these words will bring a truth so powerful that you will weep. I have seen this happen... Thus I know this to be true.

Toleration creates a tolerant nation. Zero toleration is anarchy.

But I see you are so eager and ready to light this fire your lust echo trough your words. You think you are ready for the effects... I hope you are... for what you do now will have a effect not only on those that you oppress but it will come back amplified and angry.

Rather live and let live...

tec I am afraid we clearly disagree on this point. There are a few things I am confused about eg "more abortions" etc etc !!! ???
I am not going to debate/argue this with you. We all have a right to our opinions and should all respect each opinion.
But it is clear to me that you are not a business owner, have never had more than 10 staff members, have never had young ladies working for you and have never controlled a work environment of groups of people for a long period of time. That is your choice, but please dont accuse me and other people of oppression ! I am not stopping people of smoking, I am merely not EMPLOYING smokers. This is not, not tolerating others !!! This is having non smokers working for us.

Therefore I think you are a little confused, perhaps you should read my posts above and you will see that "what we are doing now" will have absolutely NO effect on "those we oppress" !!!!!!!!!!

You have come across in quite an attacking way. Is this because I am a newbie to the site or do you normally attack everyone ?
Not sure if you are a controlling "moderator" of the site ? , But if you attack all new members this way, you will have less and less people posting. I do not appreciate the attack on me, especially when you have not read my post properly.

[adrianh]

@HR Solutions - don't mind tec0, he gets confused and likes to wind people up, and no, he is not a moderator.

We all accept his views as well....his views....

Don't let him get to you...he likes to give everybody a go but I must admit that he does have a good heart!

...and yes, I like to wind him up just for the hell of it...

[Citizen X]

[QUOTE=adrianh;87802...and yes, I like to wind him up just for the hell of it...[/QUOTE]

A very good morning to you Adrian

I'm glad that you cleared this up! I often wondered about the exchanges between the two of you
Tec0 is a good debater.

[Citizen X]

tec I am afraid we clearly disagree on this point. There are a few things I am confused about eg "more abortions" etc etc !!! ???
I am not going to debate/argue this with you. We all have a right to our opinions and should all respect each opinion.
But it is clear to me that you are not a business owner, have never had more than 10 staff members, have never had young ladies working for you and have never controlled a work environment of groups of people for a long period of time. That is your choice, but please dont accuse me and other people of oppression ! I am not stopping people of smoking, I am merely not EMPLOYING smokers. This is not, not tolerating others !!! This is having non smokers working for us.

Therefore I think you are a little confused, perhaps you should read my posts above and you will see that "what we are doing now" will have absolutely NO effect on "those we oppress" !!!!!!!!!!

You have come across in quite an attacking way. Is this because I am a newbie to the site or do you normally attack everyone ?
Not sure if you are a controlling "moderator" of the site ? , But if you attack all new members this way, you will have less and less people posting. I do not appreciate the attack on me, especially when you have not read my post properly.

A very good morning to you HR Solutions,

I've come to know Tec0 from his many posts. I don't see that he attacks anyone, but rather that he challenges deeply held views and opinions. I think that he gives a balanced view.
1.Take your stance of having a policy of not employing smokers, I not challenging this, but merely pointing out that there was a time when BAT had a product called 'snuss,' it's still avialable in mnay other countries. It's a pouch that has a little tabacco in it, that you place in your mouth. No smoke, no infringing others rights, no loss of productivity etc. If this product was still available and a potential applicant disclosed his/her use of it, would you then still not hire them?
2. If a potential applicant, disclosed upfront on his/her c.v that he/she is a smoker but commits to never smoking on the employers premises whatsoever, would your position remain the same i.e. the person commits to smoking before work and after work and not even during lunch time???
3. The fact of Tec0 not being in business is irrelevant to the debate! You don't have to experience war to know that it's unpleasant...

[HR Solutions]

Thank you Vanesh for your valid comments. I do hear you and acknowledge your points. But the fact still remains, regarding the little smoker clicks outside, something similar to the car park mothers outside a school.
Your comment of the "not being in business" being irrelevant is not altogether true. Experiencing a war and being directly in the line of fire is far different to reading about it on the news and living it from your lounge.

[Citizen X]

Thank you Vanesh for your valid comments. I do hear you and acknowledge your points. But the fact still remains, regarding the little smoker clicks outside, something similar to the car park mothers outside a school.
Your comment of the "not being in business" being irrelevant is not altogether true. Experiencing a war and being directly in the line of fire is far different to reading about it on the news and living it from your lounge.

A very good afternoon to you HR Solutions
The real problem is what will transpire if a corporate company approaches you and says that they would like to procure your services to recruit 50 branch managers for 50 of their branches.I' aware of many corporate companies that have designated smoking areas.

They give you the job description and job specification and indicate that they do have designated smoking areas in each branch and further that employees are allowed to smoke in their lunch time etc. The question is then: Will you allow your personal opinions about smoking to select such employees or will you abide by the brief of your client?
Indeed, experiencing war first hand is not the same as watching it on CNN. I hate the fact that I smoke, I’m aware of the regulations and abide by them. I know that smoking is bad for my health and I can actually feel it’s effects when I do exercise. I remain committed to stopping!
There were many times when Tec0 challenged my opinion and I simply had to concede i.e. I had no intelligent response.

[HR Solutions]

Yes with corporates it is quite different. And the laws within SA are quite laid out. ie you cannot discriminate against anyone for certain personal issues. But I was talking about our company and a lot of other companies that we do business with. When you get a spec from them outlaying a job, they cannot say certain things, but after meeting with them and getting a general feel of their company, a lot of them dont for example want smokers. And this is becoming more and more common.

PS. It is the same with some companies.
Some people only want hot sexy young girls.
Some companies only want men
Some companies only want older people

All of them have a reason for their specifications

It is certainly not as tec says about our product not being good or the service !!

Yea and smoking clients have the right not to do business with you. As stated before you are concerned about smoking and none smoking then the quality of your product and or service can't be that good

And as I said above, this statement shows a fair amount of ignorance.

[Citizen X]

The reality is that those of us who do smoke can only argue this matter so much as the law is not on our side! This is not an argument that a smoker can actually win!

[HR Solutions]

The reality is that those of us who do smoke can only argue this matter so much as the law is not on our side! This is not an argument that a smoker can actually win!

Yes you are right. And as I said a few postings above. I am a social cigar smoker, but I strongly feel this way.
I mean if you think about it, even at a braai the guys group together around the braai, the smokers group together, now put this into a work environment, it is sometimes not the best thing.

[Blurock]

We are getting a bit emotional on our views about smoking, are we not? That is why we bring in the bad boss, the bad employee, the house cat, the neighbours, the guys that smoked at school, my grandfather's dog.....

[HR Solutions]

Hi Blurock. Sorry if we are getting emotional. Sometimes when one talks or chats via a forum emotions do creep in.

[tec0]

The reality is that companies are secretly discriminating against individuals. Mothers and married women for example cannot find good work for example. The company owners want young single women with no families.

This will allow them to bypass what they consider to be problematic circumstances. Also it makes them available for other none work related activities. That is why labour brokers and labour higher companies must get a "feel" for there clients. They know the laws will not condone it but they have too.

Now this type of discrimination is indirectly responsible for people taking aggressive steps like abortions, legal narcotic dependency AKA stress medication. Yet alcohol is still condoned at some companies and if you can't have a drink with your boss then your future becomes dark very fast. This is another reality.

Thus by condoning this oppressive behaviour “of the books” the effects become horrific. Abortions, narcotic dependency, and suicide is part of the aftermath.

See the process of escalation is a mathematical certainty. Now despite a constant veritable humans are statistically predictable, now combine this with a mathematical certainty... Then I am sorry to say, you will end up with a very grim future.

I am not trying to be difficult, I am just trying to show you that every action have an equal yet opposite reaction.

[HR Solutions]

Ok tec, if you think so.

[HR Solutions]

Ok tec, if you think so.
I have just read your signature

[Blurock]

@tec0, Yes there is discrimination in the workplace. There has to be, to create a viable business. The type of business will determine the type of preference for new employees. A model agency will not hire roughneck labourers and a construction company will not hire models to dig trenches.

Are you not overreacting a bit?