Smoking at work........

[tec0]

This was aimed directly at tec0 for his continual whinging and whining about how the world is unfair to him and all the other waeklings.

Are you calling me weak Adrian? Care to share that with the class? After all you know me so well you can make this type of statement. So please continue...

[adrianh]

teccy, you need to learn that people have the right to their opinions, I don't have to eazy off on nothing, my words are my own and they belong to me, you can choose to hear them or you can choose to ignore them, but you do not get to silence them....

[Citizen X]

Maybe not in other threads. As far as this thread goes, I have not seen anyone else accusing so many other people of being judgmental, when the judgments keep on coming from that source. A good argument is when you put forward pros and cons and being able to substantiate your viewpoint, not when you make jumps from JHB to Cairo via Mauritius, which is frankly how absurd the jumps is being made from the simple statement: I do not like smoking and I will not employ a smoker.

I respect your position! In my opinion Tec0 stated his case rather quite well in this particular thread, considering that he is a non smoker.Though he addressed other issues, the way I see it, he done so to strenghten his primary position as well as simultaneoulsy deal with whatever other members challenged him with.

[Citizen X]

My final opinion:

1. As a smoker the law is clearly against me as smoking of cigarettes is heavily regulated; I can’t and don’t ignore the rights of non-smokers;
2. In my opinion it could be to the detriment of a business owner not to recruit a potential employee simply because he smokes without looking at what he can actually bring to your business in terms of productively, loyalty, honesty, trustworthiness etc. The non-smoker you hired may just be an alcoholic who stays absent from work every Monday or equally worse steals from you or is unreliable when you really need this person.
3. Very good debate, I think that you guys all raise fair points, It was Elaine’s post that made me think about my habit, here’s this lady who is forced to contend with many smokers in the workplace because her boss also smokes; So if I was now one of her co-workers, after this debate I would recognize her rights to a smoke free environment as well and refrain from smoking there out of respect for her;
4. Elaine’s situation cast’s an unexpected dilemma: What if the Boss or CEO is a smoker who discriminates against non-smokers because he and most of his management team want to smoke(But he doesn’t show this directly)

[tec0]

teccy, you need to learn that people have the right to their opinions, I don't have to eazy off on nothing, my words are my own and they belong to me, you can choose to hear them or you can choose to ignore them, but you do not get to silence them....

Hi .... had your reply or your words typed out yesterday. Surprisingly 85% there... If only the lotto was this easy... And I cannot see into the future but I am very good at profiling people and thus able to figure out what they will say and do next.

So I will cut this short. The reality is you want to oppress and all the words and debate in the world will not change the nature of your intent. Now why that is, is open to speculation but I will not go in to that right now.

People will read they will take sides they will offer suggestions and so on. Clearly however you have a low opinion of smokers. This will also be noted by them. Some will be people looking for work others may well be customers. But what you send out into the world has the tendency to amplify and come back. Now this can be a good thing or it can be a bad thing. Time will tell...

See I did the same for one of my neighbour. I told him what will actively happen to him, his property and so on for the next month that was 1 month ago now. I was spot on, on every aspect. So I hope that how you are here on the forum isn't how you behave in the real world. I say this because a personality is the same as a mathematical formula. It flows it generate numbers and it calculate actions. It is exactly the same thing.

Being "subhuman" I had to learn how to survive in “your” world. Like you said we have to adapt and learn. I did just that and I became scary good at figuring out what will happen next. I even foresaw my own downfall. I was out with maybe 12 days. Not bad for a 4 year prediction.

I have written some stuff down and lets see

enjoy sir...

[Blurock]

Are you really that successful? Yes you may have wealth but it is not true power now is it. If you bring things into perspective you will find that your success is just that "mediocre" If you where special you would have a country with your name on it, able to manipulate your DNA so that you can live forever and make gold out of dust. The truth is perfection breeds weakness and for every million you made someone else made a million times that. So depending on the scale of success where are you really. When placed against a poor person you are successful yes but when placed next to the supper wealthy supper powerful? Then you are not even on the scale.

I am not rich, I may not be successful in other people's eyes, but I am free. I am free to do what I want, to associate with whomever I want, to eat what I want, to go where I want to.

My status is not determined by the brands I wear or the car that I drive. I do not need to hoard things to be happy. I do not need to own anything. I would rather experience things and see the world.

I have seen many poor people who are rich. Not because of what they have, but because of who they are. Wealth and money can be taken away from you overnight, but spiritual wealth is a treasure that nobody can take away from you.

[Blurock]

Elaine’s situation cast’s an unexpected dilemma: What if the Boss or CEO is a smoker who discriminates against non-smokers because he and most of his management team want to smoke(But he doesn’t show this directly) [/COLOR][/SIZE]

Very good point. One has to always consider the other side's view as well. We cannot all be right, but we can learn to deal with it. Just maybe the other guy is right. That is why I can only shake my head when people have to prove a point, no matter what.

[tec0]

I am not rich, I may not be successful in other people's eyes, but I am free. I am free to do what I want, to associate with whomever I want, to eat what I want, to go where I want to.

My status is not determined by the brands I wear or the car that I drive. I do not need to hoard things to be happy. I do not need to own anything. I would rather experience things and see the world.

I have seen many poor people who are rich. Not because of what they have, but because of who they are. Wealth and money can be taken away from you overnight, but spiritual wealth is a treasure that nobody can take away from you.

Now this I can support

[adrianh]

A cannibal with a full belly could also feel spiritually wealthy....

[Blurock]

A cannibal with a full belly could also feel spiritually wealthy....

Maybe just fully fed and content. But he does not need a Gucci suit to give him status. Only a bone through the nose.

[tec0]

In reality smokers/non-smokers will find that there livelihood is affected by the various chemicals and pollutants that can be found in just about everything actually. From the air you breath to the water you drink. Everything is effected by some degree.

The reality every single labour law we have today has a very interesting history. The truth is, some companies got away with murder in the old days. A life had no worth when it came to the demand for progress.

Today we get to say no when the job is to dangerous. In the old days the word “no” was meaningless. Now if your children had to work for a company with poor work ethic and low value of human life. You yourself would not be very happy about it and or do something about it.

So really it is not about smoking or non-smokers. It is about principal... If you want to deny people work and have strict company policy so be it. But bigger companies can adopt even stricter policies that may exclude you as a suppler and or contractor. The thing is it started with you...

So in the end if you open the door for something then be sure others will adopt it and amply it. It is just the way of the world.

[adrianh]

Today we get to say no when the job is to dangerous.

Exactly, and we get to say no to employing those who pose a risk to the health of their coworkers.

You see, now we are on equal terms, just as you have a choice not to work for me so do I have a choice not to employ you!

[tec0]

Exactly, and we get to say no to employing those who pose a risk to the health of their coworkers.

You see, now we are on equal terms, just as you have a choice not to work for me so do I have a choice not to employ you!

Nope... See I would look at what I can do to make the job safe. It is kind of my job to do just that actually. Your Attitude that you yourself reflected here is "I am the boss I get to urinate on everyone and everyone must do as I say." Look at your own posts both on this thread and others. Sad part is sometimes I actually agreed with you. Everyone makes mistakes I suppose.

You could have made a choice and say lets look at "electronic smokes" or other types of mitigation "The action of lessening in severity or intensity" But you opted for hostility instead. That was your choice. Now it is your right to do so this is true. But taking someone's livelihood... That is just sick on all levels.

also the stuff that I said I will write down, have a look: now we are on the same page... you have the choice to smoke I have the choice not to employ you.

Again not word for word but hay it is close enough This was written down on a piece of paper...

Now because I am reading you like old comic book I am going to call it a day...

See you in the funny papers.

[Dave S]

It's amazing how easily we humans are manipulated, someone desides that smoking is bad for you, and suddenly the whole world goes crazy trying to ban the stuff. To make my point, google the debate on "Dihydrogen Monoxide Banning" and have a look at how easy it is to actaully ban Water! Here are a few facts about pollution that you are never told about, particularly "Diesel Dust"

When the first seasonal rains hit us, have you noticed how black your white motor car becomes? That black dirt that lies on your car is caused by "diesel dust". This is particles of dust that have adhered to molecules of moisture in the atmosphere, highly carcinogenic, and acidic, yet we don't hear many complaining about the negative effects of it, maybe we should ask some asthma sufferers, they will be very aware of it? Due to this "dust" being acidic and and a petroleum based mineral, it does not biodegrade and it adheres to the mucus membranes in our sinuses and lungs, the same way it adheres to moisture in the atmosphere, but our bodies are wonderful creations and our immune system deals with the problem, for most of us at least, but not for asthma sufferers! If we want to clean up our air, we need to look at other methods, smokers contribute less than 2% to this environmental problem...

A small 1700cc diesel engine produces more pollution, just by starting the engine than 1000 smokers puffing away for an hour, but yet we have no legistlation in place to stop the usage of diesel vehicles? Neither are we likely to see this, our economy would shut down if all delivery vehicles were suddenly removed from our roads. So, obviously, the drive to ban smoking is fueled by economy, or more simply, GREED! At least, that is my opinion.

Anti-smoking is just as discriminatory as the Black/White debacle and should not be allowed to flourish.

[Blurock]

Dave S you are correct about the "diesel dust". As an asthma sufferer, I became acutely aware of it since moving to Durban. Because of the high humidity, the particles do not fall and settle on the ground as in drier areas, but attaches to the moisture and stays suspended in the air. For a better life I should move to the Karoo, which I love, but I then I'll die from the cold! The winters in Durban are unbeatable, so I'll just use my medication.

As far as smoking goes, I fail to understand where the greed comes in, as nobody is benefitting financially from the smoking ban. As an ex smoker I can just say that maybe smokers brought the smoking ban onto themselves for being inconsiderate and belittling non-smokers...