Smoking at work........

[tec0]

Ah but you see, I have right to evaluate the suitability of a person to fit into my workplace and I feel that smokers are unsuitable for my workplace. I don't employ people who are addicted to drugs. - BTW; I consider Nicotine addiction just the same as Heroin addiction, think about it, a person who is unable to function without taking a little hit every hour has a serious problem. I have no sympathy for smokers just as I have no sympathy for drug addicts, I've been both and I overcame both therefore I feel that I've earned the right to make my judgement (like it, do't like it, that is my position)

I can't believe I thought of you as a friend

I have no respect for people that can't respect other people. The truth is everyone is different. You where strong enough to stop smoking thus everyone weaker then you is nothing and has no place in your world. That is just sad.

Let me spell it out for you, you have no right to judge anyone.

I am not saying smoking is right but this is worse.

Victimization is really oppression to force your will onto others

I know what it is to be victimized and it is not fun. So I cannot support it. And I be damned to hell before I stand [next or with] anyone that victimize others.

[Citizen X]

Vanash what's your personal view?

My personal view is that the Government should realize how much tax they generate from cigarrettes and furthermore that the workplace should have designated areas for smokers. The rationale being that if you want to have a smoke in your tea time or lunch time, you should feel free to do so. The legislation and bills keep changing, I'm actually not aware of what the law, as it currently stands says about this?

[Citizen X]

The reality is alcohol is responsible for more deaths, abuse and violence then cigarettes.

I can't help but share Tec0's sentiment here! Alcohol destroys lives but cigarretes don't. It's not a mind altering drug. It may eventually kill the user, but that's as far as it goes. I light up about 6 times a day. I did quit for several years, but smoking does give me some degree of satisfaction.

[Citizen X]

Ah but you see, I have right to evaluate the suitability of a person to fit into my workplace and I feel that smokers are unsuitable for my workplace. I don't employ people who are addicted to drugs. - BTW; I consider Nicotine addiction just the same as Heroin addiction, think about it, a person who is unable to function without taking a little hit every hour has a serious problem. I have no sympathy for smokers just as I have no sympathy for drug addicts, I've been both and I overcame both therefore I feel that I've earned the right to make my judgement (like it, do't like it, that is my position)

You can't get arrested for possession of cigarrettes but you can for drugs! You can smoke when you drive but you can't drink and drive! Cigarrettes are not mind altering substances. Yes, it's unhealthy for the user and everytime you buy a pack you see the ugly messages it has about you and cancer etc. It doesn't destroy our environment as much as truck polution..

[Phil Cooper]

I can't help but share Tec0's sentiment here! Alcohol destroys lives but cigarretes don't. It's not a mind altering drug. It may eventually kill the user, but that's as far as it goes. I light up about 6 times a day. I did quit for several years, but smoking does give me some degree of satisfaction.

It is shown that passive smoking is as dangerous, or more so, than smoking yourself.

So killing yourself is NOT "as far as it goes" - you are also affecting the non smokers around you.

I saw a sticker re smoking once.

Guy said - Your smoking makes me smell, and affects my lungs.

I enjoy a beer, the side effect is urine.

Do you mind if I come and eliminate my urine in your lap?


I have a friend who dies of cancer from smoking. He drowned on the blood in his throat.

So - don't say it doesn't destroy lives. It certainly, and definitely, does.

[tec0]

I enjoy a beer, the side effect is urine.

So it is ok for a drunk driver to wipe-out an entire family of 4 because he just had to have that one beer.

It is ok for a mother to drown her baby because she was too drunk realise the child’s head was underwater.

It is ok for a drunken father to abuse is children while so drunk that he can’t see right from wrong.

Alcohol is a true evil.

True a smoke leaves a bit of a smell but not nearly as bad as vomit on your car carpet or in your home. Not to mention alcoholic stink like old bread.

Truth is for you to suffer any effect from second hand smoke you need to go into a smoking room and live in it. Alcohol kills! and yet they proudly sponsor sport and you must drink responsibly!! A simple question how many deaths are linked to alcohol?

[Citizen X]

I enjoy a beer, the side effect is urine.

A very good evening to you Phil Just another 30 minutes and it will be good morning..

You raise pretty fair statements, you may enjoy a beer responsibly, but have a look at the stats for teh December period. So many lost their lives due to drunkenss behind the wheel. Notice that they don't just smash their vehicle into the oblivion, it's more often than not involves other innocent and sober drivers. Not much attention there, but the guy who doesn't drink, doesn't take drugs and merely lights up a cigarette is deemed to be causing so much harm! If that little smoke can do so much harm, what about the fumes from the truck that you drive behind?

[adrianh]

Vanash, you can argue it any way you like, you ain't going to change my mind. The fact that you can't get arrested for smoking doesn't change the fact that it is an addictive drug. Addiction is not characterized by a substance being legal or not nor is it characterized by being mind altering, it is characterized by creating a dependency. A smoker is dependent on their little fix.

tec0

I can't believe I thought of you as a friend
- that's your choice

I have no respect for people that can't respect other people. The truth is everyone is different. You where strong enough to stop smoking thus everyone weaker then you is nothing and has no place in your world. That is just sad.
- I have no sympathy for people that smoke and I don't have to employ them and I have no regard for people who claim that they are unable to quit (I am a total dumbass and I could quit...anybody can) - to coin a phrase "Your logic is a is a converse exponential stretch"...figure it out

Let me spell it out for you, you have no right to judge anyone.
- of course I have the right to judge, I worked hard and passed the test.

I am not saying smoking is right but this is worse.
- but you just said I don't have the right to judge - now what, you have the right, hmmm, interesting, this special logic sound like religious logic - a special kind of logic where some have rights to do things but others don't...for example "Thou shalt not kill"...but if you are a Palistinian then it is ok for us to smite the crap out of you and your wife and kids and dogs and cats and sommer your chickens as well"

Victimization is really oppression to force your will onto others
- I don't force nothing on nobody, I have the right to my opinion and I have the right to choose who I employ - howcome you feel the right to chasitize me for expressing my views, I don't give a toss that you don't like my views, they are mine and they belong to me - I don't have to like some views, some paintings or sculptures or whatever and I am within my rights to express my views. You see, the thing about an opinion is that one can take it or leave it.

I know what it is to be victimized and it is not fun. So I cannot support it. And I be damned to hell before I stand [next or with] anyone that victimize others.
- do you realize that your last sentence is totally circular and contradicts itself - think about it, you victimize me by not want ting to stand next to me, that is terrible, so should I sit at the back of the bus...you know how that idea went down in history.

Victimize - definition
Single (someone) out for cruel or unjust treatment.

Ok, please explain to me how my choosing not to employ a person that smokes victimizes them more than employing them victimizes myself
1. I don't like the stink smell of a smoker -the smell victimizes my nose and it gives me terrible hayfever (I seem to have become terribly allergic to smoke...cough cough...)
2. I don't like that a person is incapable or going through the day without relying on taking a little hit every hour - the poor mental control victimizes my sensibilities
3. My staff do not like to be subjected to stink breath when people speak to them and the stink victimizes their sensitive noses...(they prefer the smell of rose petals strewn all over their workbenches because it reminds them of skinny dipping with their favourite girl and that does wonders for their productivity)

My friend, if you want to stop smoking and you claim you are unable to then you are mentally weak. You want me to say "Ag shame man, poor Johnny is unable to give up his little ciggy so I should baby him around my workplace and the entire staff should understand that Johnny has to suck his little dummy every hour) I have the right to judge just as much as my daughters ice skating coach has the right to tell her that her spin is K@K. I am happy that my daughter's coach tells my daughter that her spin is k@k when her spin is k@k so that she is under no illusions about the reality that her spin is k@k. That way my daughter is able to turn her k@k spin into a spectacular spin. I am telling you that you are mentally weak if you want to stop and you claim you can't - you can choose to become mentally strong (in my view) or you can choose not to, that is your choice, but, I do not have to sympathize with you just as my daughter's coach doesn't have to sympathyse with her. My daughter simply agrees that her spin is k@k and she strives to become better.

I am hard and it is what it is - like it don't like it - your choice!

As an aside:
tec0 - I choose to take responsibily for my failing and choose not to be a victim of anything, especially not my own mind (I will fight my failing till the day I die). I will be the one that swings the the baseball bat when the day comes to flatten a skull rather than sulk in the corner crying about being a victim. The Syrians could cry about being victims all their lives or they can choose to say "F_THIS...we may go down in flames but we will not be victims any longer" We are mentally strong or we are mentally weak...

Now, as another aside:
I respect the guy that says that he chooses to smoke because he likes to do so and tells me that he doesn't care whether I like it or not. That is great, he is in control of his choice and he takes a stand, he doesn't cry about being a victim of his habit he stands up and swings his bat...

[Citizen X]

Vanash, you can argue it any way you like, you ain't going to change my mind. The fact that you can't get arrested for smoking doesn't change the fact that it is an addictive drug. Addiction is not characterized by a substance being legal or not nor is it characterized by being mind altering, it is characterized by creating a dependency. A smoker is dependent on their little fix.

Adrian, even cofee is addictive! Gambling is addictive, yet we smokers seem to be villianized! There's so much worse going on in our society than my 6 cigs a day....

[Citizen X]

Adrian, even cofee is addictive! Gambling is addictive, yet we smokers seem to be villianized! There's so much worse going on in our society than my 6 cigs a day....

So what is the amicable solution? We already can't smoke in restuarants etc.. maybe we'll just have to confine our activity to our homes, one when you wake up, one in your car and the rest when you at home...

[adrianh]

Vanash - I choose not to employ smokers and I choose to try and avoid people that smoke. That is my choice. I don't force anybody to do anything, I simply choose to avoid things that annoy me. If you are able to find a workplace where you can smoke then that is fine by me, that employer chooses the way he manages his workplace. I couldn't care less for the rest of it, you are free to choose to do as you see fit.

Why do you and tec0 have such a problem with the fact that I choose not to employ smokers, I also choose not to employ people who can't think or count or use a screwdriver, that is my choice.

[adrianh]

Lets turn this discussion on its head.

Would you employ a person who tells you during the interview that he has to fart evry hour and that he carries the smell around with him
Or
The guy says that he has to mastrubate every hour and he carries the smell of latex condom with him
Or
He has to eat garlic every hour.
Or
He likes to brush his teeth with extract of rotten fish 8 times day.

What I am trying to prove with these obviously offensive thoughts is that everybody have reasons why they would probably not employ people based purely on what they consider to be annoying habits.

Come come, be honest now.

[tec0]

I had a page typed out but deleted it. I don’t judge people but you want to see it as judgement because it will help your argument. That said if you wish to compare smoking with sex addiction then that is your call.

See success and self-worth blinds people. They start to believe that there way is the only way and because they are successful no one has the right to argue. My point of view, I would gladly higher a smoker. I would facilitate their needs. I see smoking not as a recreational drug I see it as self medication. Just like pain pills just like insulin and other forms of chronic medication it has its place.

Alcohol I do have a problem with. I am not judging I am just pointing out that there are more deaths connected to it. You can do your own research. The reality is you will find info that supports your claims just like I will find info that will support mine.

But oppression remains oppression regardless of your justification. If you want to be like that then be like that I can’t stop you. But just from my own experience nothing last forever.

But this thread proofs one thing for me. I must take more time in identifying someone’s personality because I think they are a good person. This is the 4th time this month where I realise that some not all but some are total bellends.

[adrianh]

But this thread proofs one thing for me. I must take more time in identifying someone’s personality because I think they are a good person. This is the 4th time this month where I realise that some not all but some are total bellends.

...and of course this is not a judgement on your part, no no, it is an "moral evaluation of your personal view of the character of another"

Let me explain something to you; lets call it: Logical Thinking 101:
If we state that we hate those who judge others then we, by definition hate ourselves. You need to understand that your argument is circular and absurd. It is the same as saying: "I stand for common religious rules and believe that it is a sin to kill someone but I believe in the death penalty" - the logic is patently absurd. If your world is to be black and white then it is absurd to say that black=white only when you choose it to be so.

I am perfectly happy not to accomodate those who want to stink up my environment, it is my choice and it is my right - take it, leave it - I couldn't care less.

So tell me, will you employ somebody who has to fart every hour and then carries his fart smell with him all day long; come come, don't be coy, take a stand and tell me the truth!

[tec0]

adrianh > That is your logical thinking. Me I cannot care less what you do. Honestly I just realise that I always try to see the best in people but never see who they really are. Is it judgement? No… It is a point of view. You can call it judgement or whatever you feel like labelling it.

Truth is, you can just say look electronic smokes only. They don’t smell and is basically harmless to you as a “second hand smoker”. This is what one may call “solving a problem”. But your own processes words and thinking, you decide to demonise someone for trying to keep their cool.

I use to work with difficult customers all the time. One morning I looked at the customer shook my head and pullout all my stuff and left. His customers did the same. They saw him for what he was. He tried to get everything for free and blame me for his other contractors I wasn’t even responsible for.

So do whatever dude in the end it will be your gains and your losses. If you want to crap all over people expect the same treatment.

Last thing worth stating, I use to have a high respect for your opinion and you as a person.


see you in the funny papers

cheers