The case against Christian public holidays!

[Blurock]

You know, the more you wave your book the more I despise the entire concept of religion, especially Christianity (a self rightious doctrine that seems to give the believer the right to shove their fairytales down everybody's throats)

My mind has a switching threshold where once a switch is flipped it doesn't easily flip back. These posts have served to flip my anti-Christianity switch to 100% My daughter is seriously studying Buddhism and she has asked me to take her to a local temple. That is where we will go to find her a place in the universe, (I will not take her to a place filled with nonsensical circular quoted out of context rub it in your nose answers)

The only thing that comes to mind when I read the last couple of posts is this: Absolutely Horrid

No need to give me a talking to Dave, I will refrain from speaking about this matter any further out of sheer disgust.

@Adrian, I may also have once been where you are now. I also detest bible punchers and I do not support the dogma of any church. I have also posted on this forum against the preaching of religion as people all believe that they are right. Religion is often twisted to serve our own selfish interests.

We all have our choices, but I do believe in a God who is greater than any man. You are free to believe in what ever pleases you, but do not expect me to sit by idly while you mock my God and my religion.

The Bible is a book of history, prose, poetry and teachings. Funny that the more people try to discredit the Bible, the more proof of its authenticity is found through archaeology, historians and scientists. The Bible is also recognised by other religions of which many have similar teachings.

[Dave A]

A little perspective.

Last night I watched a jumbo jet flying through the night sky on its way to land at King Shaka International Airport.

All you could see was a cluster of lights moving across the night sky at pace. And there was that unmistakable distant roar of the jet engines I'm sure most of us are so familiar with.

What would someone sitting in a field next to the camp fire gazing at the stars have thought of such a sight and sound just 200 years ago, let alone 2000 years ago?

If you had no knowledge that such a thing existed, never seen an aircraft before, or seen an airport; no concept of jet powered flight, electric light - you simply had no context to identify what it was - what would you think?

How would you describe it?

Just 200 years ago what would you think of a person who you saw a month ago near blind with cataracts, and between then and now those cataracts had been removed by laser surgery, complete with cornia adjustments so that he/she had perfect vision, and now you met this same person who has miraculous perfect vision?

How would Revelations have been written if the audience that heard the message of many amazing and wondrous things from the prophet / son of God / spectacularly enlightened person for those times (depending on your belief) had our current "modern day" context?

How would the citizens of the world from 2000 years ago percieve you if you were to tell them of today's world?
It would take no more than showing them a touch screen cellphone and explaining what you can do with it to blow their minds. Now imagine you didn't have that cellphone with you and you could only describe it and what it can do. What would they put down in text to try to pass on what you had said?

How will the citizens of earth just 200 years hence perceive our musings of today?
What will be their context?

I'm not here to destroy anyone's faith in a higher power (or higher powers). But I would point out that blind faith in text written just 200 years ago would seem inadvisable, let alone those written 2000 years ago.

My only suggestion to those who would debate matters of religion is beware of dogma.

[tec0]

Ok, now that that is done, lets get back to Christian holidays. Yes I think that we should have all the holidays and that they should all be paid, hell, why don't we throw in a couple of extra days. The staff can all park off at home and I will continue to work as I always do.

For you it is about money for someone else it is a time to get away from work. I really don’t care what people say or what they cry about. But if you want to remove the holiday I would just take my leave on the days known as Christmas day and so on. If my employer refuses me my legally owed leave I will get the CCMA to do a number on them.

If that doesn’t work I will fire my boss. Fact is if you are qualified it is easy to find work again.

[adrianh]

tec0 - I have zero, zip, nothing no qualifications. I wish I had the sense to achive at least 3 degrees when I was younger. All I have is my own drive to learn, to work and to do a bit better every day.

You see, yet again the difference between you and I, I don't work, I spend my time creatively, to me there is no such thing as holiday, I don't need to get away from my life, I am just as happy sitting at my PC typing to you as I am cleaning the workshop at 10pm on a Friday night. I am unable to sit on my butt for a day or a week doing nothing of value just mindlessly having a "holiday". Now i am not judging you or anybody else or the way you spend your time, I am simply saying that I am content going about my business every hour of every day.

Of course we are obliged to give people the leave that is legally owing to them and of course people have the right to enjoy their leave as they see fit.

[tec0]

tec0 - I have zero, zip, nothing no qualifications. I wish I had the sense to achive at least 3 degrees when I was younger. All I have is my own drive to learn, to work and to do a bit better every day.

You see, yet again the difference between you and I, I don't work, I spend my time creatively, to me there is no such thing as holiday, I don't need to get away from my life, I am just as happy sitting at my PC typing to you as I am cleaning the workshop at 10pm on a Friday night. I am unable to sit on my butt for a day or a week doing nothing of value just mindlessly having a "holiday". Now i am not judging you or anybody else or the way you spend your time, I am simply saying that I am content going about my business every hour of every day.

Of course we are obliged to give people the leave that is legally owing to them and of course people have the right to enjoy their leave as they see fit.

I remember seeing on TV where people talked about concoction that was suppose to make you invincible. The person hosting the show said we live in 2012 why do people still believe in the old ways?

Then one of the people being interviewed said that it is no different than another person believing in divinity and so on.

So what is the real problem? The problem is that people selling goods saw an opportunity to make money close to and on Christmas day. They then exploited it to such a degree that people started to say that that religious group is insensitive? Fact is when you look at who is doing the actual exploitation you do end up with a different view.

Now I myself is nor here or there, I like holidays because it is a chance to get into the car and drive 400km to see a friend and or relative. Spend time with the people you actually do care about.

Now if you enjoy your work then it must be the best job ever... It is rare that people enjoy their jobs. All I am saying is this look at who is doing all the pushing and slamming you with dogma. Then have a look that others also don’t like it and they may well be from the same religion. Thus I say don’t generalize I really don’t think that everyone is guilty.

[Citizen X]

My only suggestion to those who would debate matters of religion is beware of dogma.

A very good afternoon to you Dave,Your suggestion of being weary of dogma does indeed have merit. We’ve concluded that religion is subjective and moreover that once someone is indoctrinated he/she is unlikely to accept another belief system. I am a firm believer that every ‘man has a right to choose his own destiny,’ or believe in the ‘God,’ of his/her understanding.
That said, allow this poor and wandering scholar the opportunity to throw a spanner in the works as it were. This spanner is the type that causes the machine to breakdown eventually!
Let’s take a journey to 700 BC, there was this man called Isaiah, his friends thought he was crazy purely because he was saying very crazy things. Just one of the very crazy things he said can be found in Isaiah 24:19, 20, 21…” The Earth is violently broken, the Earth is split open, the Earth is shaken exceedingly. The Earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall totter like a hut.” SAY WHAT, you must be drunk my friend, just show me how you can make even this plot spilt open let alone the Earth, Ya/no you Isaiah , you a textbook example of looney tunes. Here we are in 700 BC and this is the rubbish you have to say!
On Sunday, December 26 2004, we had to enter a new word in the English dictionary ‘Tsunami,’ It’s a Japanese word that stems from TSU meaning a harbour and name which is a large wave.
Now, here’s where it gets interesting, of the coast of Indonesia 9.0 magnitude earth quake rocked the earth. It’s estimated to have released the power of 24000 Hiroshima-type bombs. Richard Gross a geophysicist with NSA said this Tsunami made the earth wobble! That the quake caused the earth to spin three microseconds or three miilionths of a second faster and tilt about an inch on its axis! This quake caused a crack on the ocean floor of some 600 miles..
This same crazy Isaiah in 700 BC, before Rome even though of inventing crucifixion, predicted crucifixion in graphic detail. His friends must have deemed him crazy as the form of Jewish capital punishment was stoning to death not this bizarre idea! These are just 2 old testament prophecies, there are hundreds more that speak volumes. The dogma at that time was this character is crazy, listen to what his saying. Well Isaiah pal, you’ve just made a contribution to the Oxford Dictionary “ Tsunami!
My point of departure is me, I was anti -Christ, anti- Bible, anti- Church, anti- Christian. Those who know me well will attest to the fact that I said on numerous occasions ‘I’ll never follow that Jesus like never ever! Notwithstanding this we need to have a profound respect for each others religious differences. Right here in Lenasia, we’ve accomplished this i.e. Muslims, Christians, Hindus etc living in peace and harmony. Every single Eid, I’m invited to at the very least 5 homes, and I go to all, okay eating at all is not possible simply because so much quality food and deserts are prepared, but I go!

[Darkangelyaya]

I respect anybody's belief system who respects mine.
Somehow, though, certain religions feel the insane urge to force themselves on others in order to grow their numbers. Does the number of followers a religion has prove its validity?
Most of us have been given the power to reason. That, combined with a good dose of gut feel, will always lead you in the right direction.
Unfortunately, most of us are also lazy. It is just easier to follow an established (socially acceptable) dogma / religion / way of life / belief system, than it is to pave the way and forge your own.
As an example: In my life, if I had to buy into the generally accepted belief that stage 3 to 4 breastcancer is only curable by cut/poison/burn/death (surgery/chemo/radiation/death), I would've celebrated, this month, my 14 month anniversary of receiving my harp/bass guitar/wings/horns/shovel/virgins.
I look at the way you treat people, animals, nature. That tells me everything I need to know about your god/gods.
There is always another way.
Never stop looking for your own piece of peace.

[Citizen X]

I respect anybody's belief system who respects mine.
Somehow, though, certain religions feel the insane urge to force themselves on others in order to grow their numbers. Does the number of followers a religion has prove its validity?
Most of us have been given the power to reason. That, combined with a good dose of gut feel, will always lead you in the right direction.
Unfortunately, most of us are also lazy. It is just easier to follow an established (socially acceptable) dogma / religion / way of life / belief system, than it is to pave the way and forge your own.
As an example: In my life, if I had to buy into the generally accepted belief that stage 3 to 4 breastcancer is only curable by cut/poison/burn/death (surgery/chemo/radiation/death), I would've celebrated, this month, my 14 month anniversary of receiving my harp/bass guitar/wings/horns/shovel/virgins.
I look at the way you treat people, animals, nature. That tells me everything I need to know about your god/gods.
There is always another way.
Never stop looking for your own piece of peace.

I remain unwilling to defend holidays which are not Biblical! Christmas and Easter is not Biblical and it will never be!!! I think that certain pastors realise that Christmas and Easter is big business, church offering wise so certain pastors don’t have the guts to tell their congregations the truth about Christmas and Easter and perhaps more importantly what are the true Biblical Holy days!!! I thank God that I answer to NO Pastor nor will I ever!! I answer to my liege, my Lord, my GOD only!!
A little Power Point presentation! Some good food for thought!

http://www.theforumsa.co.za/documents/666Chip.PPS

[vieome]

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/m/mondex.htm

What I would like to know is the translation(english) of the mark of the beast in the bible correct. The fact is most people are already chipped not a chip in the body but an external chip, every cell phone is a chipped device. A cellphone is a tracker that allows one to make phone calls. This fear of the end of days has been around for ages, in world war one people called it the end of days, same with world war too. If one is so busy planning for the afterlife, how can one live this life that GOD has given them now. I am not sure the work of GOD is to create fear in peoples lifes.

[Justloadit]

What I have noted is that every generation has a prediction of end of days in their lifetime.

[Citizen X]

Now here is where I demonstrate something in real time! WORK! It's 18:19 on my watch and I work for my boss, HE wants me to at the very least say a little something here, PROBLEM..memory, I realise that I haven't visited the Book of Revelation for some 3 years. I was very familiar with it, now I simply have to revisit and come back in real time! This is the work aspect of it!!!

[Citizen X]

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/m/mondex.htm

What I would like to know is the translation(english) of the mark of the beast in the bible correct. The fact is most people are already chipped not a chip in the body but an external chip, every cell phone is a chipped device. A cellphone is a tracker that allows one to make phone calls. This fear of the end of days has been around for ages, in world war one people called it the end of days, same with world war too. If one is so busy planning for the afterlife, how can one live this life that GOD has given them now. I am not sure the work of GOD is to create fear in peoples lifes.

I think this is my final post on this thread! The reality is that I sincerely respect all human beings regardless of their race, religion or political opinion!
A little perspective please?? The perspective is who am I in this matter??? It’s really quite simple, I’m part of the weak, foolish and lowly and despised things of this world. As such I’m allowed a little latitude!
Prophetically there’s a great number of prophecies that still need to be fulfilled before we even reach this time!!!
Work, that’s what comes to mind! I work for the boss! This is work, you see, this exercise made me realise how infallible human memory is. I have not visited the Book of Revelation for about 3 years. I was very familiar with it but to provide some form of a decent response, I’ve had to revisit it. WORK. A servant works and this is part of my common law duties really. “Five days to go: working for the next day; Four days to go: working for the next day; Say we got: three days to go now: working for the next day; Two days to go (ooh): working for the next day, yeah. Say we got: one day to go: working for the -Every day is work - work - work - work!”
You see I see no celebrity pastor or Bible school student coming right here to work, this takes time and effort! They leave this task to a nobody like me! I envy them in that they actually are wise and prudent!!!!
Let me impress upon you that a certain unmentionable villain in this story has taken on the face of logic, reason, philosophy, science, mathematics and all cognitive ability. He’s a villain, about that, I have no doubt; to reason with him will be a futile and senseless task as he will use your very own mind and how your cognitive ability operates, your very own logical process to out reason you.
I admire Saint Augistine, as his task was not an easy one, he had to take on the philosophers of his day and he was privy to what I just said, he was acutely aware of this problem and challenge so he simply said, “ Faith precedes understanding!”
“The name of the book, Revelation, is a translation of the title inthe original New Testament Greek, Apocalypsis—the origin of the other name by which the book is now known, the Apocalypse. The Greek term denotes an unveiling or uncovering—thus, a revelation. It here signifies an opening up of hidden knowledge to understanding. This book has perplexed readers for almost 2,000 years. Over the centuries it has been one of the world’s most misunderstood and misinterpretedbooks. Yet it need not be so.”[1]
This elusive ‘mark of this elusive beast,’ actually appears only 8 times in the Book of Revelation!
Revelation 13:16-18, basically says that it doesn’t really matter who you are but that when this time comes everyone who need to buy and sell will be required to have this mark either in their forehead or in their right hand.
Revelation 14:9, basically you damned if you accept the mark and you also damned if you don’t
Revelation 15:2 “And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his MARK, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.”
Revelation 16:2, basically some affliction of the skin occurs to those who have this mark
Revelation 19:20“And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.”
Revelation 20:4 “And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.”

---

[1] Vide: The Book of Revelation Unveiled: United Church of God: 2007. Page 1

[Darkangelyaya]

If one wants to debate about religion, one needs to take a step back, and investigate EVERYTHING; question EVERYTHING.
Yes, even the Bible.
But that leaves us with a kind of despair - because most of us would regard it as blasphemous to even question such a revered writing.
And if one cannot refer to the Bible as the only source of truth in debate - then what do we base our own truth on?
Scary stuff, this 'starting to think for yourself' - business, isn't it?

[vieome]

Vanash I understand where you coming from. But for me every time I see the mark of fear, I know it is about human control. Goverments have used fear to control the masses for years, and so have the many churches. The bible can be interpreted in so many ways, and for the sake of ones own health and sanity it will do well for one not to fall for the control that fear imposes on ones life. For me the bible is about the battle between Go(o)D and (D)evil. When I see Christians peddling the mark of fear by dangling the whip of the fires of hell to guide to me GOD, I see something Un GODLY in that. If we accept that the mark of the beast is an exact translation of the original Greek script, then we have to accept that the first man and women on earth were Jewish. We have to then accept other trues like that makes the Jewish the chosen people, and all others second in line after the Jews, and then there is the Irony of it all, that the very chosen people(the people God spoke to directly) do not believe in the book of revelation. I know discussing religion and Politics can get very messy, and that is where free will comes into play, we can simply choose to face our fears head on, or forever be controled by them.

[Citizen X]

I know discussing religion and Politics can get very messy, and that is where free will comes into play, we can simply choose to face our fears head on, or forever be controled by them.

It is for this very reason that I stated "I think this is my final post on this thread! The reality is that I sincerely respect all human beings regardless of their race, religion or political opinion!"