The truth about South Africa

[HR Solutions]

tec0 - you need to employ people and then you will see exactly how useless South African labour is. It is not about money, a foreigner works twice as hard and doesn't give you any nonsense. South Africans are lazy, have a culture of entitlement and no matter how much you pay them they still complain, strike and steal. It is simply the nature of the beast!

Yep Im afraid you are totally right. The majority of South Africans are lazy and do not want to work. They do not have pride in where they live, where they work and where they play.

Our problems regardless of their complexities can be solved easily

Our problems are NOT easy to fix, but they are fixable. Perhaps the ANC should have a look at the Western Cape. Down there a lot more people have pride in what they do, from the street cleaner to the municipality to traffic authorities etc. The efficiency of the DA government is fantastic.

[pietpetoors]

The speech of Heman Mashaba at a Solidarity Conference is a very good read.

http://www.politicsweb.co.za/news-and-analysis/racial-policies-are-a-cancer--herman-mashaba

[vieome]

You have summed up the situation very well. The daughter of the maid who works for us matriculated last year with a fairly decent matric. She has managed to get a job as a packer at the local Clicks. She has stated that she is going to give up this job "as the money is too little." We explained to her that she at least had a job and she should look at it as a starting point and should be able to work herself up the ladder. When they see what their leaders are earning this no doubt creates unrealistic expectations.
This attitude of entitlement is one very small step away from anarchy!!!

I really cant understand this kind of thinking, we put pressure on our kids to get matric, and after matric, we dont want them to feel they are entitled to more then a basic level packing job. Or we send them off to university, and then expect with a marketing degree they must settle into a basic sales job.

Are we mistaking people who seek a better opportunity as people who feel they are entitled. What is wrong with someone who has finished 12 years of education feeling that they are entitled to more then a basic packing job?

@adrianh
"It is simply the nature of the beast" true and ironic as well, as in zimbabweans working in SA who are known to be good workers, yet when Zimbabwe was a British coloney they could not get the Zimbabweans to work, they(british) had to import labour from Malawi.

[BusFact]

Well, it comes down to why she is giving up the job and what her plan is. I think we are all for her resigning so that she can start work at a better, higher paying job the next day or month. I don't think anyone is asking for her to settle for being a packer forever.

I'd say that the issue is if she plans to simply resign without another work prospect lined up. The attitude where she will not work at all if her expected job expectations are not met, is where it becomes problematic. Surely the best way forward is to continue with the current low paying job, whilst you line up your next assignment?

[HR Solutions]

Surely the best way forward is to continue with the current low paying job, whilst you line up your next assignment?

Spot on

[vieome]

So what would you say is worse.
matric student who accepts job as packer and quits without another job lined up.
Or matric student who is unemployed and refuses job offer to be a packer?

[BusFact]

I'd say they are equally "bad". The end result is the same - unemployed. That is choosing unemployment despite having an opportunity to work. Someone like that can't complain about poverty.

[cyppokagain]

The main problem we now have is the culture of entitlement.

Of you look at the far East, countries like Malaysia, they have NO raw materials, etc., but have to import the loy. Over a couple of decades they have gone from broke to some of the richest countries in the world?

Why? It is called a work ethic.

Their workers work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, to produce the goods from the imported raw materials. They earn a pittance, which makes their goods very competitive world wide.

While NOT insinuating that those working hours are right, we are at the completely opposite side of the tipping scale.

We are the opposite side of the balance pole to Malaysia. We have un-dreamed of potential - a large work force, great climate, a great internal infrastructure (albeit deteriorating), etc.

So why are we not en route to richness, growth and a great furure for all?

Simple.

Unions demand higher and higher pay and benefits for their members, and less and less working time: less production for more benefits.

They cannot, and will not, see that this makes us LESS competitive in world markets (the clothing industry is good example - even the ANC import T-Shirts from China for their functions as the local versions are too expensive.

They want local shops to only stock locally-manufactured goods to support the local (expensive) industries. They won't see that their members (already below/just on) the breadline, cannot afford to pay, say, 35% - 40% more for the same shirt they could get the previous week from China - etc.

In a nutshell - we need a decent work ethic, with people's income linked to production.

If a person does not produce, be able to fire him/her, and replace with a productiove person.

The opposite of where people who are dishonest, and are caught stealing red handed, cannot be fired, but Unions will support them and forse employees to keep them on.

And then they wonder why foreign investment goes elsewhere. And even local investors are moving to Botswana or Lesotho. They "don't understand it". Do you?

Malaysia is a very rich country, both raw material wise and otherwise... Oil, Natural Rubber plantations, Palm oil plantations, etc and etc...
Singapore has no raw materials but it is essentially a clearing house for trade in Asia as well as a juristinction of corporate security in a sense.

South Korea would be a good example... but it got subsidized indirectly through having assess to the U.S. market. But the work ethic is there, however absent a market that work ethic is worthless... case and point is Indonesia which doesn't have much assess to other markets and is relatively poor per capita even though it is actually not that badly positioned resource wise.

Your argument rests on having comparative advantage (being more efficient or having slack of ability to produce what others need in a trade exchange market)
you are ignoring that the world as a whole can produce many times over what it needs, the problem is demand that could pay for it which is exacerbated by the monetary games that are going on at all levels of the world market both internally and externally.


Success requires certain things, an ability to benefit from your good decisions (ergo laws that protect you and not rob you)
an ability to reach a market and be accepted in it, as well as, clear transactions successfully
access to resources for added value or production of services for exchange, perhaps a few other aspects as well.

I am going to give you an example of how things break down even if you have everything aligned in your favor.
Imagine you have good laws, your product is accepted, and you have access to raw materials.
Then the global economy slows down and you have a slack of demand for your product globally, firms fail, and their inventory is
thrown into the market to clear at prices below your cost pushing you to the edge. Some countries would enact trade barriers for their industry
to not suffer, others wouldn't, if the former are successful then pro-rata share of below price inventory enters the later and puts more pressure
on those firms. From that point lots of things could occur to make it worse or better.

In some sense countries that choose mild Autarky in a sphere(industry) or two and protect themselves could be better off, but in today's world of global trade
this is essentially not accepted, and would be fairly painful since WTO and other institutions would come down on that country.

[Hannes Botha]

I was just reading Plato's take on Democracy here and what he says makes perfect sense. A government elected by the people elects the most popular person to run government. Then he asks the question, if you have appendicitis, do you want the most popular doctor performing the operation? Or the best doctor?

Fact is, our economy was the strongest when the least popular where in charge. You could actually buy a dollar for less than R1 in the 1960's. I am by no means a political expert, but this just seemed to make sense to me, when I read it...

[Blurock]

[QUOTE]

I really cant understand this kind of thinking, we put pressure on our kids to get matric, and after matric, we dont want them to feel they are entitled to more then a basic level packing job. Or we send them off to university, and then expect with a marketing degree they must settle into a basic sales job.

Are we mistaking people who seek a better opportunity as people who feel they are entitled. What is wrong with someone who has finished 12 years of education feeling that they are entitled to more then a basic packing job?

The problem is a lack of work ethic and the notion that certain types of work "is below me". Whether you have a degree or not, everyone has to start somewhere. When I grew up, people were grateful just to have a job. They were prepared to work hard, long hours to prove that they had the ability to be trusted with more authority and responsibility. They equipped themselves with the skills to achieve their goals. They progressed on the ladder of achievement. They did not get a piece of paper and then demanded to be a manager.

[tec0]

The problem is a lack of work ethic and the notion that certain types of work "is below me". Whether you have a degree or not, everyone has to start somewhere. When I grew up, people were grateful just to have a job.

Yea tell you what, do this for just 1 week if you can. take R20 a day and live only on that R20. Put petrol in your car with it, do your shopping with it, buy your medication with it and see what quality of life it affords you. It is so very easy to say the above "types of jobs are below someone" There is no way in HELL that you will spend your time and effort on a contract that will cost you more then what you will make. YET you expect people to do just that.

People get upset with me but see i was on the other end of that stick. Here is a little fact for you. You cannot live on experience alone, you need the qualifications. Now most companies deny you the qualification and or income sometimes both. You are NEVER GOOD ENOUGH until you leave and then they must get someone with the "skill" and they cannot! Why because no skillful person will take a job what will cost them more then what they earn in a month.

A few jobs ago or more then a few... I worked for a man doing server installations. My pay per month was R900 "i think i cannot remember if it was R1400 or R900" but i do believe it was R900 and i worked about 12 to 15 hours a day. Then my transport broke down... I couldn't fix it. 6 weeks in his business went belly up... Why because no qualified MCSE at the time would work for what i was willing to work for. He lost it all.

So yes, There is a fine line in "taking any job" and taking a job that will cost you MORE then what you earn.

So what is wrong with this Country... simple answer GREED...

---edit---

Actually checked my scans "i kept a record of all the jobs i ever had" it was R900. Just also to add, before i started getting money i worked for free for a long long time.

[HR Solutions]

Blurock I totally agree with you. There are too many people that feel they are above starting at the bottom or find any excuse under the sun to start working at the bottom or for a lower salary. My son is qualifying this year and I expect him to start right at the bottom and if the salary is not good enough to cover his car that might break down then he must get a second night job. If this is still not good enough then he must ask people for a lift. He must accept the job, prove himself and work himself up !!! Being in recruitment I have heard all the excuses over the years ..... And the scary thing is, the excuses all come from the people who think the world owes them or companies owe them etc etc etc.

Those people who are prepared to walk 8km for an interview and are then still prepared to walk that distance if they get the job will make it (and yes I have had a candidate who did that) - he has been there approx a year now and is flying - respect to him - he never found or made excuses !

[tec0]

Have to work your way to the top... I suspect that people do lose touch with the real world from time to time so once again i will take some time to explain the situation. Your average rent for a single bedroom apartment will set you back about R2000 excluding power. I confirmed with a few people and that is there asking price. No pets and the person must be single. Secondly it exclude electricity. Your average car will cost about R2700 depending on make model and insurance. Your average day to day "bread" depending on brand range from R7.50 to R9.00 and if you need low GI that will set you back about R15.00.

So you will need R2000+R2700= R4700.00 after tax, Just to cover your transport and a place to sleep. Now that is R151,62 Per day for 31 days. Now basic foods will set you back about R15 a day for 1 person for 1 meal {cheapest we have here in my area) That means just to eat a single meal a day will set you back R465.00 a month give or take. Now my car is really light on fuel so i will use it as an example, takes about R630.00 to fill it to the brim with 95 unleaded. Normally that last me for 3 weeks...

Now here is the math
2000+2700+465.00+630.00=5795.00
5795.00/31= 186,94

That means for the absolute basics you need R186.94 per day after tax

that runs to R18,70 per hour for 10 hours. Now most people i know "on the so called low end" earn R6,45 per hours...

Yes people must start at the bottom and work there way up BUT the bottom income need to be about R6000 or better, otherwise a person cannot survive.

Now before people tell me how crazy i am, i did not include medical aid or other bills or even other basics in this estimation... And honestly would you "the top dog" work for R6.50 per hour? Because that is exactly what you expect others must do.

[HR Solutions]

Just two little things u could change from your budget :
1. Buy a cheaper or second hand car which will not cost u anywhere near R2700. Why oh why do you want / expect such an expensive car when you are starting out in life ???
2. Live with your parents for as long as possible to keep your rent down while u start out in life and this woul help you on the food side as well. Nothing wrong with living with your parents 6 to 12 months after you either finish school or qualify from your studies !

So in fact I am "in touch" with reality because I can safely say I have been there and I have kids that have been there and are still there !

[tec0]

Just two little things u could change from your budget :
1. Buy a cheaper or second hand car which will not cost u anywhere near R2700. Why oh why do you want / expect such an expensive car when you are starting out in life ???
2. Live with your parents for as long as possible to keep your rent down while u start out in life and this woul help you on the food side as well. Nothing wrong with living with your parents 6 to 12 months after you either finish school or qualify from your studies !

So in fact I am "in touch" with reality because I can safely say I have been there and I have kids that have been there and are still there !

A great deal of people don't have that support. Secondly second hand transport is not always a good deal and can leave you in a mess or in a dangerous situation. A proper secondhand car is a must because we live in dangerous times. A safe place to sleep at night is a must because we live in dangerous times. Yes you can start with a lower income but your car "regardless of age" will need maintenance and that do cost money. Public transport for many of us is not a option.

Be honest with yourself, can you truly survive on R6.45 a hour? Car guards earn more then that.

I agree fully you need to start at the bottom and climb up. But if a car guard earns more then you, and the job has no future "and many jobs don't" then people tend to get stuck. You know this happens i am sure you must have seen it happen at least once in your life.

To continue with this train of thought, many people don't get training and or get qualified but work under a qualified person. The company sadly had no intention to do formal certifiable training. I have seen this time and again. And not from small businesses mind you. Some of them are very large and has the ability to easily afford training.

You will never work for free, well R6.45 is not money and with our weak Rand... What more can i say.

Greed is an ugly thing, and because of it there is no middle ground anymore.