Racial groups!

[Citizen X]

I didn’t dare enter the political forum until today simply because at the best of times politics is contentious, there are fiercely expounded outlooks and belief systems to inform those outlooks, heated emotions on all sides and the real potential for creating division and strive. I'm for building bridges not burning bridges, I’m, for forging friendships and alliances not creating enemies. When I first joined TFSA, I said to myself," The Polical forum is one that I will never enter," but here I am!!
We’ve reached a stage in South Africa politics where you no longer can say, “the Whites,” “The Blacks,” The Indians,” and “The Coloureds.” The reason is apparent, we are all individuals regardless of the race or religious we belong to. Each racial group anyway has cultures, sub cultures, a variety of religions etc. We are for all practical intents and purposes a very diverse society and we should be very proud of such diversity. What we can however say is “That individual who just so happens to be a White person said.. and done… on …,“ That individual who just so happens to be a Black person said .. and done… on “That individual who just so happens to be an Indian person said… and done… on…“That individual who just so happens to be a Coloured individual said and done… on..None of us can speak on behalf of the racial groups we just so happen to belong to. Race is only relevant for census purposes as could be seen from the census forms that every single one of us had to complete.This is again impossible to do because we all individuals. We are divided on income lines and our society is on this basis unequal. In my opinion universal adult sufferage is important and need not be objective at all. You can vote for what ever political party you want to based on any criteria you so choose as an individual. I personally will never vote for a political party simply because that political party has a predominate amount of certain racial groups. I’ll use this generic example, if there is a predominantly Indian political party called ABC which is riddled with corruption, maladministration, nepotism, poor service delivery and a general attitude of ‘we don’t really care whether you live or die,’ I’m certainly not going to vote for this party because it is predominantly an Indian party.
My general question to everyone is simply this: Are you comfortable voting for a party that is riddled with corruption, nepotism, maladministration, poor service delivery regardless of what that party once stood for?

[adrianh]

Ah, well some of us never voted for them in the first place so the question is moot for us!

[Petrichor]

We’ve reached a stage in South Africa politics where you no longer can say, “the Whites,” “The Blacks,” The Indians,” and “The Coloureds.”

Sadly, I am not 100% sure that this is the case yet. If it was, we would have seen bigger growth in some of the smaller political parties and not the smallish decline in the party which we all know are riddled with corruption, maladministration, nepotism, poor service delivery and a general attitude of ‘we don’t really care whether you live or die.

My son, now 7, lives in the world you describe, however, our age group still need some time to grow into that world.

[murdock]

i will say it again...until we are all refered to as "south african" there will always be discrimination..when it comes to voting...personally i dont know who to vote for...if i lived in the cape...chances are i would vote da...because there "seems" to be change/improvement...but everywhere else...politians are all in it for the money...little work lots of benefits...this is just my view...chances are there are people who put in the effort...i just dont see it...you only see malema and his doings on the news...like there is nothing else worth reporting.

i also believe a ward councillor should have to live in the ward he/she represents...not in an upmarket estate 100 km away.

[Blurock]

i also believe a ward councillor should have to live in the ward he/she represents...not in an upmarket estate 100 km away.

...and you should make him work for his money. Why are the street lights not working? What are you doing about crime? when are you fixing the potholes? The current government has it far too easy as people still vote with emotion for the "club" that they belong to. Despite all the lies, corruption, theft and blatant unpatriotic acts being committed daily. Unpatriotic? Yes, the current government is stealing from their own people and not acting in the best interest of South Africa. What they are doing sometimes border on treason.

My principle is still not to vote for any party, but to always vote for the opposition in order to keep a balance. I do not believe in the halos that politicians are supposedly wearing as they are all in it for their own benefit and not for the community that they are supposed to be serving.

[wynn]

The sooner Politicians (should that have a capital??) get over themselves and stop confusing criticism with racism the sooner things will balance (I know most of them do it on purpose)

It is so bad that if a black person criticises they call him a mouth piece for whites??? I mean how can you get through to people like that??

Keep on voting for the official opposition untill they are strong or in power, then start looking for the next party to support!

[adrianh]

Which country doesn't have some sort of boundaries beween different racial groups?

[Citizen X]

Adrian, your proposition has merit in that to date mankind has not managed to live peaceably with each other. We still have this concept of war and civil war. For me it's always been about humanitarian matters and rights and not at all about race. Take India for example, it’s not a situation of Black and White yet 500 million people live in abject misery. Take North Korea, again not about Black and White, yet 100’s of thousands of people are been oppressed. Nigeria, another hotbed, again not Black and White but religious rivalry with deadly consequences. Racial prejudice actually started in the USA. Even until the late 60's there was still some kind of segregation or the other. Ireland, stable now, but again, not a Black and White scenario but rather religious differences...

[adrianh]

Even after 50 years there are still "racial" tensions in Germany. Americans, as wonderful as they claim to be, still have very serious racial issues...

So, the question is this then; if it can't be done anywhere else howcome we think it can be done here, especially given our history.

[Blurock]

In my view we are all far too sensitive and we often hide behind racism if things do not go our way. What is racism? If I criticise you for being utterly useless, it is not racism, but a reflection on your inability to do something properly.

I have been called a Boer, a Soutie, a Kaffer Boetie, a Capie a Mlungu and many other names. So what?! I am proud to be all those things. The Boers tamed this land. They gave the British Empire hell in the Boer wars. They have built up many businesses that still stand out in the business world.

The English Souties made a big contribution to this country in terms of commerce and administration. The Blacks provided their labour and are still contributing to building a nation. They, and the Coloureds have fought side by side with the Whiteys in more than one war. The Cape Malays have contributed to our cousine and language, so has the Greeks, Portugese, Jews, Chinese and other South Africans of foreign decent. The Indians came here as indentured labourers and pulled themselves up by their boot laces. Our diversity is our strength.

In the end we are all South Africans. The reality is, when there is a problem, we start calling each other names. We talk about those damn Catholics, or Jews or whiteys or some other name that comes to mind. People will even discriminate against someone from the wrong side of the track, the wrong school or any other difference we can think up.

Funny that we are all brothers when we are together at a sporting match or having a braai or some other social event. Then we realise that the other ou's are not so bad after all.

Yes, there are some racists in every community, but they will burn themselves out. Stop being so sensitive and enjoy our rainbow nation. Be proudly South African.

[Citizen X]

I think we’ve come along way since 1994 in that the vast majority of us have basic human rights which we were deprived of pre 1994. I think the vast majority of South Africans regardless of their race, religion or political opinion want to genuinely live together under the label of South African. I think that the vast majority of South Africans are against any form of racial prejudice. I have observed in my experience that there is reverse racism against the White minority.This is simply wrong In my experience I’ve come across racist Indians, racist Blacks, racist Whites and racist Coloureds. No racial group can take the moral high ground as no racial group is without its criminals, rogue elements and hate mongers. I think we do need to redress past unfairness but in a manner that will not be to the detriment of any minority group. I think the vast majority of South Africans are against corruption, nepotism, maladministration and poor service delivery.I was born into diversity! My mom is Coloured, My dad Indian. 3 of my mums sisters married Muslim men, so I was very privileged to grow up with various religious groups up close and personal. To date I maintain close relationships with my many Muslim cozens. They are an integral part of my life. The fact that I’m Christian never caused a problem ever, not even on one occasion. I have Indian family and I have Coloured family. There are different denomination of Christian in my family. I have far closer relationship with my Muslim family than I do with my Christian family! We were born into religious diversity in Lenasia. We coexist and respect each other’s religious practices and holy days etc.The vast majority of my closest friends are Black individuals in Soweto. I spend a great deal of my spare time in Soweto with my friends there. I got to know each racial group up close and personal. Between 1995 and 1997 I lived in VanDerbiljpark, a place called “The van Riebeck hotel,’ not sure if it still exists. I got to know the White Afrikaaner community intimately in this time. In my experience, they were nothing but welcoming, accommodating and very friendly. My stance remains humanitarian in nature.I have a religious belief system that informs me and as such impacts on how I see my fellow human beings. I remain optimistic for the future!

[Citizen X]

"The more things change the more they stay the same…"
1. Tec0, your sentiment holds perfectly true in many ways! As far as I’m concerned it’s the final analysis on this matter! The parallel that I would like to draw is our current South African situation with: George Orwell’s 1945 Animal Farm. This satire was largely about the Russian revolution in which the author went through great lengths to demonstrate that the central idea of that revolution was to promote equality and human rights and in essence change. Not only did things get worse but human rights infringements was by by necessary implication far worse;
2. In my experience(again no qualitative and quantitative research done), but from what I have personally observed over these past 18 years in the workplace, in the community and from the media is that there is reverse racism against the White minority;
3. Freedom of speech was one of the cornerstones of the Constitutional Assemblies final product the Constitution of 1996. The Constitution of 1996 was seen as so supreme that it is no longer referred to as “The Constitution 108 of 1996.” This is so because the Consitution is not an Act of Parliament such as The Criminal Procedure Act 51 of 1977(which is an Act of Parliament, hence Act 51 of Parliament);
4. South African popular opinion which in essence is the will of South Africa is that The Protection of Information Act,” is there for only one purpose i.e. to hide and protect corruption and corrupt public servants. We not in a state of war! We don’t have an arsenal of nuclear weapons! What is it exactly that needs protection that is not already well protected? No reporter is reporting on South African weapons and defence capabilities. No reporter is reporting on any single thing that can be seen as a threat to National Security! They are by and large reporting on corruption and tenderpreneuship;
5. There is a misconception in South Africa that if you get the ministry of Public works involve in tenders , then there is no corruption. Ever heard of cronyism? It’s not implausible to think that you can have a situation where some officials in public works are equally as corrupt as the other role players and that some of their transactions can be a façade or sharade to create the impression that because public works is involved then there’s definitely no corruption;
6. “Cronyism is partiality to long-standing friends, especially by appointing them to positions of authority, regardless of their qualifications. Hence, cronyism is contrary in practice and principle to meritocracy.Cronyism exists when the appointer and the beneficiary are in social contact; often, the appointer is inadequate to hold his or her own job or position of authority, and for this reason the appointer appoints individuals who will not try to weaken him or her, or express views contrary to those of the appointer. Politically, "cronyism" is derogatorily used.”
7. “Governments are particularly susceptible to accusations of cronyism, as they spend public money. Many democratic governments are encouraged to practice administrative transparency in accounting and contracting, however, there often is no clear delineation of when an appointment to government office is "cronyism".
8. “It is not unusual for a politician to surround him- or herself with highly-qualified subordinates, and to develop social, business, or political friendships leading to the appointment to office of friends, likewise in granting government contracts. In fact, the counsel of such friends is why the officeholder successfully obtained his or her powerful position — therefore, cronyism usually is easier to perceive than to demonstrate and prove. However, "The practice of favoritism based on relationships and connections - rather than someone who demonstrates top credentials and well-suited experience – ultimately results in vastly inferior government service to the public.”
9. A dictatorship in a democratic country is easily established by very simple croynism
10. I thank God for our vociferous media houses. They do South Africa great credit. They protect our interests by exposing corruption and engaging in difficult investigative journalism.

[Justloadit]

I just heard on the news today that the minister of Agriculture, being grilled by a member of the Freedom Front, then shouted out that his shouting by a man who shout at two children, and I must add that these were black children. A statement that has to do with the fact that the FF asked her to resign because of her incompetence. She later retracted her statement.

This from an MP who says she is not racist? Being caught in a corner, now looked at bringing in racism to deviate the real crises. I tried looking for it under the www.ewn.co.za, but could not find it.

[wynn]

"The more things change the more they stay the same…"
1. We not in a state of war! We don’t have an arsenal of nuclear weapons! What is it exactly that needs protection that is not already well protected? No reporter is reporting on South African weapons and defence capabilities. No reporter is reporting on any single thing that can be seen as a threat to National Security!.

Until today see http://mg.co.za/article/2012-05-04-l...-sa-vulnerable It is a good thing that Botswana, Namibia and Zimbabwe do not seem to have any territorial ambitions, because if they chose to annex a few South African provinces, the defence force would be hard-pressed to stop them, especially if Lesotho decided to get into the action.

[Citizen X]

Phillip's map and supporting graphs paint a dismal picture!