The Bradley Manning Saga

[Citizen X]

History is written by the victor not by facts. So what am I saying?

the more things change the more they stay the same...

A simple truth if there ever was one.

Good afternoon Tec0,

I've committed your sentiments to memory and will find some occassion to use them.
Just 3 of your sentences speaks volumes of the world's state of affairs

[carl0s]

Couple of things.

I think the transgender thing wouldn't have a negative impact on Manning for a lot of fair and open minded people. It certainly doesn't discredit him (her?) to me or affect my judgement of what s/he did.

As Vanash already hinted at, it could have worked towards Manning's advantage during the sentencing, although obviously s/he ended up with quite a long sentence so perhaps not.

I had a friend who was transgender (Paul / Paula). S/he had an attic full of 6-foot skunk weed plants that was discovered by the police. When he turned up to the crown court hearing dressed as a woman I think the subject of the court case was put into a different perspective.

[HR Solutions]

History is written by the victor not by facts

Don't agree with this at all. History is only written by the facts !

[wynn]

Don't agree with this at all. History is only written by the facts !

But only eventualy!

Living in this country when the NATS were in control you would be forgiven for believing a lot of their bulls#!t now we are to believe that only the cANCer were responsible for democracy?

We will only hear the true history of the freedom struggle when the cANCer are no longer a political organization.

[HR Solutions]

Sure but the facts are for example: When the ANC took over, when Mandela came out of prison etc eg.
History is really only later anyway according to the facts.

[Citizen X]

Don't agree with this at all. History is only written by the facts !

During the apartheid regime, history was written by them in a manner that suited them. The “facts,” were not presented to us in our history textbooks in school. This is now common cause!
There is an actual genrally accepted term for countries that do so: Historical revisionism. This the distortion of the historical record to suit the country in question. As such their children will learn the distorted view as opposed to what actually transpired.
A further example is holocaust denial.
Plato asserted that ‘those who tell the stories also hold the power.’
Many countries resorted to burning both books as well as libraries to accomplish this. China and Serbia are a further two examples.
“The history textbook controversy centers upon the secondary school history textbook Atarashii Rekishi Kyōkasho ("New History Textbook") said to minimise the nature of Japanese militarism in the First Sino-Japanese War (1894–95), in annexing Korea in 1910, in the Second Sino-Japanese War (1937–45), and in the Second World War (1939–45). The conservative Japanese Society for History Textbook Reform commissioned the Atarashii Rekishi Kyōkasho textbook with the purpose of traditional national and international view of that Japanese historical period. The Ministry of Education vets all history textbooks, and those that do not mention Japanese war crimes and atrocities are not vetted;however, the Atarashii Rekishi Kyōkasho de-emphasises aggressive Japanese Imperial wartime behaviour and the matter of Chinese and Korean comfort women. It has even been denied that the Nanking massacre (a series of violences and rapes carried on by the Japanese army against Chinese civilians during the Second Sino-Japanese War) ever took place (see Nanking massacre denial).”[1]

“In May 2009, Russian president, Dmitri Medvedev, established the History Commission of Russia (formally, the Presidential Commission of the Russian Federation to Counter Attempts to Falsify History to the Detriment of Russia's Interests) to counter aggressive attempts to rewrite history to Russian disadvantage, yet Alexander Cherkasov of the Memorial human-rights group, called it a regression to Soviet-era control. Historian Isaak Rozental says, "Their [the Kremlin’s] approach is not to study history but to use it. The textbook History of Russia and the World in the 20th century (2004), by Nikita Zagladin, replaced the National History: 20th century, by Igor Dolutsky; Zagladin’s textbook was produced under the aegis of President Vladimir Putin, who wanted a more patriotic textbook. Critics of the textbook note the lack of detail about historical events such as the Siege of Leningrad (1941–44), the Gulag forced-labour camps, the Russo–Finnish Winter War (1939–40), the First Chechen War (1994–96), and the Second Chechen War (1999–2000), as serious factual inaccuracies; most egregious, the critics propose, is the absence of the Holocaust (1933–45), and the glorification of the rule of Josef Stalin (1922–53.)”[2]

“Nationalism: For example when reading schoolbook history in Europe, it is possible to read about an event from completely different perspectives. In the Battle of Waterloo most British, French, Dutch and German schoolbooks slant the battle to emphasise the importance of the contribution of their nations. Sometimes the name of an event is used to convey political or a national perspective. For example the same conflict between two English speaking countries is known by two different names, for example, the "American War of Independence" and the "American Revolutionary War". As perceptions of nationalism change so do those areas of history that are driven by such ideas.”[3]
“Access to new data: Much historical data has been lost. Even archives have to make decisions based on space and interest on what original material to obtain or keep. At times documents are discovered or publicized that give new views of well established events. Archived material may be sealed by Governments for many years, either to hide political scandals, or to protect information vital for national security. When these archives are opened, they can alter the historical perspective on an event. For example with the release of the ULTRA archives in the 1970s under the British 30 years rule, a lot of the Allied high command tactical decision making process was re-evaluated, particularly the Battle of the Atlantic. The release of the ULTRA archives also forced a re-evaluation of the history of the electronic computer. When American soldiers entered the Dachau concentration camp on April 29, 1945 to obtain the surrender of the retreating Nazis, the massacre of German S.S. guards was not reported by American newspaper reporters who were embedded with the American troops. When the "I.G. Report" of the Army's "Investigation of Alleged Mistreatment of German Guards at Dachau" was released in 1991, it became obvious that the massacre had actually occurred and had been suppressed by General Patton.”[4]



If a ‘victor,’ doesn’t intend rewriting history , then why burn a library????

There are just too many examples of libraries burnt to list here. I’ll mention just one
The Ancient Library of Alexandria
The simple question is : why burn a library, if you don’t intend to rewrite history???

---

[1] Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_revisionism_(negationism). Accessed 28 August 2013

[2] Supra n1

[3]Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_revisionism. Accessed 28 August 2013

[4] Supra n 3

[HR Solutions]

Ok Vanash - Not really into reading a copy pasted article, but will take it at face value.

[Citizen X]

Ok Vanash - Not really into reading a copy pasted article, but will take it at face value.

A very good afternoon to you HR Solutions,

The first part was not 'copy pasted,' nor was my conclusion 'copy pasted.'

The text I did select from other sources('copy pasted) was included to support the premise.

Premise(not copy pasted)

During the apartheid regime, history was written by them in a manner that suited them. The “facts,” were not presented to us in our history textbooks in school. This is now common cause!
There is an actual genrally accepted term for countries that do so: Historical revisionism. This the distortion of the historical record to suit the country in question. As such their children will learn the distorted view as opposed to what actually transpired.
A further example is holocaust denial.
Plato asserted that ‘those who tell the stories also hold the power.’
Many countries resorted to burning both books as well as libraries to accomplish this. China and Serbia are a further two examples.

Conclusion: Not copy pasted

If a ‘victor,’ doesn’t intend rewriting history , then why burn a library????

There are just too many examples of libraries burnt to list here. I’ll mention just one
The Ancient Library of Alexandria
The simple question is : why burn a library, if you don’t intend to rewrite history???

[pmbguy]

History is totally flexible to the pen, changing over time to suit a particular cause or outcome or popular view. History is subjective in its “certainty”. One fact that is unshakable is that there is absolutely no objective 100% factual history we can perceive. We must employ agility towards the edges of “facts”, facts without a good perception of context can be pulled and pushed in many directions.

If a ‘victor,’ doesn’t intend rewriting history , then why burn a library????

Its a show of power, secondly it’s for long term political advantage. The victor would like to reduce the intelligentsia, by taking away their information and propaganda potential and much needed educated class. An educated class is an obvious threat to a new Emperor.

Usually the victor does intent to rewrite history.

[Citizen X]

History is totally flexible to the pen, changing over time to suit a particular cause or outcome or popular view. History is subjective in its “certainty”. One fact that is unshakable is that there is absolutely no objective 100% factual history we can perceive. We must employ agility towards the edges of “facts”, facts without a good perception of context can be pulled and pushed in many directions.




Its a show of power, secondly it’s for long term political advantage. The victor would like to reduce the intelligentsia, by taking away their information and propaganda potential and much needed educated class. An educated class is an obvious threat to a new Emperor.

Usually the victor does intent to rewrite history.

My position is that an occupying power or a conqueror has the direct intention of burning libraries and other such records so that revolutionary groups won’t have access to their history.
It is a show of power as a group of people, an entire community has benn taken captive. The power already shows, just by the act of taking complete control of a geographica area.

The victor will then decide on whether the conquered people follow his law(as in the case of Roman and all it's colonys, they were forced to accept Roman Law and thereby Roman culture and education which included history). They then done what many conquerors have done, they incorporate the conquered people into their society and condition them according their cultute, customs and history.

Imagine not experiencing a childhood or teenage years, this occurs for so many thousands of children.Their childhoods are taken from them. Today in Syria 1 million children are in refugee camps. This since 2011, their childhoods are being stolen from them and it’s the victor’s who will ultimately tell them the history.

Zimbabwe has a state controlled media. Even at present history is being created, as they provide their people with a picture of what to see. In doing so a generation of Zimbabwean children provide their full attention to this media and propaganda. There are half- truths. Though all previous elections of Zimbabwe except for the first in 1980 are questionable, Mugabe prevails and he has to tell his country their historical story. He’s telling them so from his perspective. By giving people land(against international law and any reasonable law), his land reform program, he has a fan base to whom his recreated history will be presented. They have and appear to be still accepting the historical version of events that he has offered. This created history is that the evil ‘colonists and imperialist) want to invade Zimbabwe and he wants to protect Zimbabwe. His target audience becomes even more susceptible to his created history when he tells them boldly that he will just take international mines, money, assets, property and minerals without even caring what the West has to say.

So, this is one of many ways that a victor in power who has the military at his disposal will ultimately guide the way in which the history was told.
I would love to watch ‘TV Zimbabwe,’ just to see what it is that they are showing their people. I think it will make for very interesting viewing.

[HR Solutions]

Obviously many different ways of seeing how history is created.

[tec0]

Obviously many different ways of seeing how history is created.

Historical accuracy is simply impractical...

[HR Solutions]

Historical accuracy is simply impractical...

I still don't agree at all.

[pmbguy]

I had a friend who was transgender (Paul / Paula). S/he had an attic full of 6-foot skunk weed plants that was discovered by the police. When he turned up to the crown court hearing dressed as a woman I think the subject of the court case was put into a different perspective.

Hi Carlos, what are you doing with your spare time?

[Phil Cooper]

A traitor passes secrets to the enemy that put their own country at risk.

No secrets were passed - only proof of savage disregard for the rights of innocent people who were mis-treated by soldiers acting against the rules of their own country.

I think he did a GREAT thing, and should not be jailed.