Jessica Leandra Dos Santos racial tweets

[Citizen X]

The words of this song are as compelling and as meaningful as they were when they were first penned to paper in the early 80’s(Adrian, I’m not creating another ‘old school music is cool’ thread here. I’ve long since cremated that thread and scattered its ashes!)
Ebony and Ivory
By Paul McCartney & Stevie Wonder

“Ebony And Ivory Live Together In Perfect Harmony
Side By Side On My Piano Keyboard, Oh Lord, Why Don't We?

We All Know That People Are The Same Where Ever We Go
There Is Good And Bad In Ev'ryone,
We Learn To Live, We Learn To Give
Each Other What We Need To Survive Together Alive.

Ebony And Ivory Live Together In Perfect Harmony
Side By Side On My Piano Keyboard, Oh Lord Why Don't We?

Ebony, Ivory Living In Perfect Harmony

We All Know That People Are The Same Where Ever We Go
There Is Good And Bad In Ev'ryone,
We Learn To Live, We Learn To Give
Each Other What We Need To Survive Together Alive.

Ebony And Ivory Live Together In Perfect Harmony
Side By Side On My Piano Keyboard, Oh Lord Why Don't We?”

[adrianh]

Its all fine and dandy on a piano keyboard but it simply doesn't work that way in the real world, not even the Americans can get it right. There will always be groups who can't get along, people are unable to get along with their own race let alone all other races. The best one can hope for is for enough tolerance of one another so that groups don't get in each others faces. People can't even get along at work, in church and even at home, yet we belive that everybody are going to stand in a big circle holding hands, it ain't going to happen. Like I said before, we need to strive for tolerance and leave the RA RA for later.

[Citizen X]

Good afternoon Adrian,
I respect your opinion and I do understand your perspective. Notwithstanding this, I’m of the opinion that the vast majority of South Africans want to co exist regardless of their race, religion or political affiliation. I’m of the opinion that the vast majority of South Africans are sincerely happy to live together, work together and go to school and university together. The color of a man’s skin should be of no more significance than the colour of his eyes.
Lenasia is still predominantly Indian. This is only so because of the former atrocious and repugnant ‘group areas Act. I happy to inform that many of my Black and Colored brothers and sisters are moving into Lenasia. I never wanted to live only among Indian people. The only reason I did so, was because we were forced to do so. I’m personally not aware of many White people that have moved to Lenasia but they should. Our main shopping centre here in Lenasia, The Trade Route Mall attracts consumers of all races and this makes me feel that we not that isolated. This is a good thing. I personally have a few Black friends that have married White woman and it’s working rather quite nicely for them. I also see many inter racial couples at the cinemas and this too is very positive, a real step in the right direction. It’s also very enjoyable to shop in a mall that is representative of all races. My sister married a White gentleman. I have a profound respect for my brother in law and his family as they are genuinely very good human beings. From the outset of their relationships we had nothing but pleasant and sincere encounters from both families. We maintain sincere respect for each other. The issue of race was never a problem. Their wedding in and of itself reflected diversity as I have Indian and Coloured family. I have Muslim and Christian family. My sister’s bridesmaid was a Black lady. The wedding reception had Blacks, Indians, Coloreds and Whites. Everyone was sincerely comfortable to be in each other’s presence. I remain optimistic for the future!

[adrianh]

Again, thats all fine and dandy but there will always be friction, it is simply human nature. There will be people that get along racial boundries and there are people that won't, it is what it is. I will say it again, it is a matter of tolerance. You must also understand that some find it very difficult to be tolerant because they are excluded because they are white. Racism isn't just when a white man is nasty to a black man, it is also racism when a black man excludes a white man based on the colour of his skin...Do you think that black only organizations, BEE and all that nonsense fosters a sense of equality of race, come on. Now here is a question; I have a little business that employs 5 people and I need to hire a sixth, do you think I should hire the best man for the job (why, BEE doesn't) should I hire a previously disadvantaged person or should I hire the currently disadvantaged young white who can't get a job because of BEE. I am quite certain that you can guess who I would hire. These issues go deeper than the particular individual, it goes to values and policies, although people respect one another and get along on a high level it doesn't mean that the same holds true at street level.

[Citizen X]

Adrian, it does hold true that there is Black on White reverse racism. This is plain ugly! I believe that it's a minority of Black individuals who engage in such reverse racism. I support redressing past unfairness but not to the detriment of any minority.

[murdock]

as you mention about the colour of our eyes...there should be no discrimination...the only reason we have different colour skin is because of the climate we are designed to live in...just like our hair.

[Citizen X]

I couldn't have said it better myself Murdock! Many thanks indeed! You know on the issue of hair, the only scientific purpose hair has is to protect your scalp from sun burn....

[adrianh]

What about racial stereotypes - wrong or right, should it be banned?

[murdock]

if we all want to live together...you have to take out the part of which creates the discrimination...if we were all south africans...there would be nothing to discriminate each other...as soon as you put black...white...coloured...there is discrimination...as long as the goverment discrimintates by enforcing race groups on ID document etc...there will be discrimination...just like making a bit issue of a word...just helps fuel discrimination...we would need to find something else...ethnics group or something along those lines...to fight with each other.

look at america...labeling black people in america african americans just helps fuel the fire...so however the bright spark who started calling black people in america african americans...should be thanked for all the race discrimination...let me reprase this...i believe it would help the racial tension if black people werent refered to as african american...take away the african american part and everyone becomes american...just like in south africa...take away the race grouping...black...white...coloured...indian and we would be one step closer to becoming united "south africans"

creating bodies like the "black lawyers ass." for example also helps fuel racial discrimination...

call me white and take away my rights to certain contracts which feeds my family and all the black people who work "with me"...you are discriminating...stop the discrimination and we will unite as a strong country.

[Dave A]

I'm starting to think that exposure to a healthy multi-cultural community is a critical ingredient to transforming people's predjudices.

And the emphasis is on "healthy"...

[Citizen X]

1. In the spirit of healthy discourse I deem it necessary to address the very racial sterio types that plague our South African society. All the racial stereotypes we have have no factual basis, are without merit and perhaps more importantly are both defamatory and very malicious;
2. It’s not my intention to offend anyone by citing certain stereotypes. If I inadvertently offend anyone please accept my sincere apologies and please study this entire thread in order to establish the context;
3. I don’t agree with any of the following stereotypes:
“1 - Blacks are criminal
- Whites are moral
- Crimes committed by whites require an explanation
1A - It is normal for blacks to commit crime
1B - Black criminals are brutal and inhuman
1C - Blacks want revenge against innocent whites
1D - Serious crime occurs primarily in white areas
2 - Blacks are stupid
- Whites are superior
- Whites are more talented/intelligent
- Whites are more kind
- Whites work harder
- Whites are victims
2A - Blacks lower standards
3 - Blacks are irrational
4 - African society is primitive
4A - African traditions are barbaric
4B - Blacks are simple
4C - Blacks are lazy
4D - Blacks act on instinct
8
4E - Black women breed
4F - Blacks need whites to advance
4G - African history is primitive
4H - Africa doesn’t contribute to world civilisation
4I - Africa is ridden with disaster, disease and violence
4J - There can be no African renaissance
4k – Blacks are child-like
4L – Only Blacks can be African
5 - Blacks are dirty
5A - Blacks live in squalor
5B - Blacks cause disease
5C - Black men cannot control their sexuality
5D - AIDS is an African disease
6 - Black women are ugly
- White women determine what is beautiful
7 - Black lives are unimportant
- White lives are important
- White victims are personified
7A – Blacks are used to being injured or killed
7B – Blacks don’t need privacy
7C – Blacks die in large numbers
7D – Black victims wait to be helped
8 - Black foreigners threaten South African society
8A - Black foreigners are criminals
8B - Nigerians are drug dealers
8C - Zimbabweans are gangster
8D - Black foreigners bring disease
8E - Black foreigners steal jobs from South Africans
8F - Illegal immigrants are black
9 - Western society is civilised and modern
European/white/western events are more important
10 - Blacks are incompetent and incapable of running anything by themselves
- Whites are hardworking
10A - Black government leads to crime and corruption
10B - Black government leads to anarchy and the breakdown of social order
10C - Black government, like Communism, damages society
10D - Black government fails
10E - Blacks are undemocratic
10F - Blacks are power hungry
10G - Black parliamentarians are inefficient and lazy
9
11 - Affirmative action promotes undeserving people
11A - Affirmative action is racial discrimination against whites
11B - Blacks are racist
11C - Black empowerment fails
12 - People act according to their ethnic identity
- Ethnic shorthands explain behaviour
12A - Jews lie and are manipulative
12B - Jews control the economy and the media
12C - Indians are corrupt
12D - Coloureds are degenerate and gangsters
12E - Afrikaners are bigot
12F - White farmers are cruel and exploitative
12G - Muslims support terrorism.
13 – Item supports a racist worldview
(Item validates racist differences)
14 – All whites are racists”


Based on my own experience I can say the following: I have a Black friend Sam, who hates soccer and loves Rugby. My brother in law is White and he hates Rugby and loves soccer. My Black friend Tshepo holds a master degree and is working towards a doctorate. One of my White friends Robert did not finish school and has no qualifications. My Black friend Thomas hates pap and only eats rice. The vast majority of Muslim family and friends I know stand against terrorism and are very peaceful people. All my White friends are not racist.

I don’t share the racial steriotypes listed above. I oppose such stereotypes. I find them to be without merit, malicious and defamatory!

[tec0]

Vanash > But that is not the real point now is it? Think about this, is this about what can be and what cannot be said out loud? Now in anger people say things because they are angry. Everyone gets angry and sometimes words does get exchanged. Now I have seen with my own eyes how good people lost their work and livelihood just because they spoke out in anger. Is this fair?

Let me ask you this, would you say that the possibility exist that people became overly sensitive about this topic?

Just have a look at nearly ALL racial bickering and you will find that the actual words was harmless in the long run but because the persons involved wanted to be overly sensitive they escalate till the point where we see people losing their jobs and harsh actions from the law systems.

Now does the law empower racial bickering? Or is racial bickering protected by the laws?

Also consider this, if the law disregarded any and all forms of racial bickering will people still try to escalate it and force the subject? Or will it remain mean words that was said in anger and forgotten the next day?

[murdock]

i beleive i am racist...unfortuntely it is not something which i decided on over night...growing up as a white youngster in south africa during the apperheid era and could go into a long drawn out story...which i am not going to do...i do believe i learnt to become a racist over time...i have had many opitunities to leave this country and go where the grass is greener on the other side...instead i have chosen to stay...why because i believe in this country...there are more good people than bad...and i do believe there is hope for this country...if the leadership could lead us in the right direction and set an example in the way they live...i also believe in time i can change my attitude towards people of other race groups race groups and learn to resepct them and their culture...just like i became a racist over a period of time i could change my attitude towards other race groups...when i was a youngster i had indian frieds who i fished with for many years...but unfortunatly because they were indians they were not allowed to come to my house...however i spent time enjoying good food and company in their homes...i was badly beaten with a shambok while leaving one of my fishing mates house by a group of indians who didnt agree with me being in their district...it didnt stop me from going back...just like religion...i beleive we can learn to tolerate each other...the younger generation are already learning to live together...i see it with my kids...they dont have a clour bar...the friends are of all races and they dont see the differnet colour skin...especially not at a young age...

will i always be a racist...i hope not...life is short...just because one person has darker skin than another doesnt make them all the things listed in the previous thread...we just need to respect each other.

[Citizen X]

Vanash > Now in anger people say things because they are angry. Everyone gets angry and sometimes words does get exchanged. Now I have seen with my own eyes how good people lost their work and livelihood just because they spoke out in anger. Is this fair?

Let me ask you this, would you say that the possibility exist that people became overly sensitive about this topic?

Good afternoon Tec0,
Point taken! It does hold true that people often say things in anger that they don't really mean and regret later. There are many people that are overly sensitive about this topic. The way that these two ladies approached this matter is commendable. They made a full public disclosure and they apologised. I'm merely trying to demonstrate that these stereotypes have no real factual basis!

[Citizen X]

i beleive i am racist...unfortuntely it is not something which i decided on over night...growing up as a white youngster in south africa during the apperheid era and could go into a long drawn out story...which i am not going to do...will i always be a racist...i hope not...life is short...just because one person has darker skin than another doesnt make them all the things listed in the previous thread...we just need to respect each other.

Good afternoon Murdock, I'm of the opinion that you've raised some pertinent issues! I do really understand where you coming from! The Government of that day led you to believe that Communism was imminent in South Africa if drastic steps were not taken, that communist don't believe in God, that you were in essence in a state of war and that Black people were terrorists that wanted to usher in communism. So, yes, in principal I do understand whu you held the beliefs that you held. Whilst, race was never really an issue for me, I also held prejudices but on the basis of religion. I would engage in heated arguments in favour of Christianity. I made some painful remarks to people of a certain religion in public. I regret this very, very much. With the benefit of hindsight, I have grown since then and no longer have a bias when it comes to religion. My simple stance is that a pesron will stand by their religious beliefs and furthermore it's actually against my religion Christianity to impose my view on others. Xenophobia reared it's ugly head in South Africa in 2008. This was largely due to stereo types about foreigners. Look at this headline from that time: “Cops said I was an alien! Homeboy angry after jail horror (14/05/2008 p.) This South African individual was not against the xenophobia, he was not against non nationals been arrested and treated brutally by the police, he took very specific exception to the fact that he was mistaken for a non national and treated brutally by the police!Look at this stereo type about Indians, " All Indians are corrupt," The problem with a stereo type is that it can be reinforced by the actions of the minority of Indians i.e. Shabir Shaik i.e. Shabir Shaik is Indian , he's corrupt so all Indians must be equally corrupt. So you see this is the real danger of stereo types. Once you have a preconceived idea about someone in your mind before you get to know that individual personally, you will then react and/or behave towards that individual based on the stereo type. Individual content of character should be the point of departure. This is what I think...