Big pharma's 'satanic' plot is genocide

[sterne.law@gmail.com]

The push to shore up IP issues here in SA is seemingly gaining some momentum.
The lobbying aside, there is probably a bit of fear. Every government knows they need the meds, and there must be some fear, ( and probably threats)that if we piss the drug guys off they will say, ok, we won't make that, or we will limit that. The people will turn against government and not the company.
recouping costs, the developer still has certain advantages even if patent period is shortened. They can release their drug into the market as a generic 2/3 years before the patent expires, thus establishing a foothold, and obviously they have a zero development cost which means they can enter at a power price.

On a separate, yet linked issue, is actual pricing. If you see the price through medical aids and compare it to across the counter, the price is huge. Across the counter the meds may be R600, yet dispensed via a medical aid (the customer), it may be R400, as an example.

Having thought of this, perhaps the pricing structures is the thing to look at.

[tec0]

Thankfully it wouldn’t matter for too much longer. Any medication “chronic or otherwise” is effectively treating something that is potentially lethal. Private Hospitals demand large amounts of money and if people can’t pay they get to watch how the people they love die.

I always wonder what happened to our moral responsibility. Remember compassion? For what are we if not human? YES you do get people that are driven by something else but that doesn’t mean they are always right.

But if they want to make the medication inaccessible thousands will die but it will be nothing if you compare their actions before they go. The article hit it on the head... It is going to be hectic... Why? Because the “victims” have literally nothing to lose and if History is any indication then there is a no more dangerous mind then the mind of a person that has nothing left to lose.

[tec0]

On a separate, yet linked issue, is actual pricing. If you see the price through medical aids and compare it to across the counter, the price is huge. Across the counter the meds may be R600, yet dispensed via a medical aid (the customer), it may be R400, as an example.

Having thought of this, perhaps the pricing structures is the thing to look at.

My medical aid refuses to pay for my medication there reasons was never given to me in writing so I cannot tell you exactly why they don't want to pay. My pills cost R600 "that is cash price" What makes me even more angry is the fact that I am dependant on said medication but must go to the doctor every time I need a box of pills. They refuse to give me refills.

[sterne.law@gmail.com]

Well doctors have obligations. But often you can get a 6 th script. It will depend on condition, the meds and potential side effects.
Similarly that sounds like chronic meds, your doctor should complete the form with medical aid.

[AndyD]

.........On a separate, yet linked issue, is actual pricing. If you see the price through medical aids and compare it to across the counter, the price is huge. Across the counter the meds may be R600, yet dispensed via a medical aid (the customer), it may be R400, as an example.

Having thought of this, perhaps the pricing structures is the thing to look at.

I didn't address the pricing issue because whilst it is enextricably linked with the copyright/patent/IP issue it has already started to be addressed as a separate issue by government legislation although thiswas more at the retail end of the chain. But yes, I agree entrely the lack price control of medications plus the fact we've seen time and time again the pharmacutical industries inability to keep their profit margins humane should pave the way for further pricing legislation.

The problem with this entire issue is that general business rules don't apply. Because of the massive amounts of profit involved powerful governments are 'lobbying' or possibly it would be more accurate to say they're dictating what the regulations or lack of them must be to the smaller emerging economy countries in order to leave the door open for the blatant racketeering of these drug cartels. Because of this you can't look at the issue on a standard business level because the environment these companies operate in is not a standard free-market.

[tec0]

I had an interesting day at our local pharmacy... I look after a few people and sometimes over the counter medication is needed for allergies or the like. Now I give them my details each time I go to buy over the counter low to no risk medication also known as S0 or S1 medication.

Well I got treated like a criminal and was very upset. See I explained to them that the medication is not for me it is for people that lack the mobility to come and get it themselves and to be clear I am not talking about massive amounts here “two boxes” or 24 pills.

It is summer and some people do suffer plant allergies it is not uncommon. Yet according to the pharmacist I need to bring in there ID documentation for S0 to S1 medication.

Now follow what I am saying. So it is OK to show up with someone else’s ID documentation and buy medication! If someone anyone shows up with an ID that didn’t belong to them I would phone the cops because that ID can be stolen or worse...

So a LAW that I would like is one where the Pharmacist must give you a document that tells you what medication you are allowed to buy and in what amounts. That way we can make sure you don't do anything wrong.

[adrianh]

Look, I understand the problem of cost all to well. I take 3 different cronic medications. The cost is R730 per month. There is an additional product that I should be taking but at an additional R800 per month it is not financially viable. I have a choice, pay for the medication or go crazy. There have been many times when I've been unable to get the cash together and had to pick n choose which is most important. Yes, I know the effectes that each have and whether I can do without them if I have to.

But, the fact that those medications bring stability to my life does not mean that I have the right to demand to have them at a low price. Big pharma developed them at great expense and I benefit from that development. If you want to lower the cost of medication then go for the middle men, go for the doctors who are associated with pharmacues, private hospitals and medical aids. Discovery Health is the biggest culprit as far as I am concened. They have the entire mrket sown up and they do as they please. We are fighting the wrong enemy, it is not big pharma whom we should be fighting, it is private hospitals and medical aids.

I am very harsh about these things because I grew up in a medical environment. My old man was an orthopeadic surgeon, my mom a radiographer and my sisder did nursing for a while.

Health works like this, the more money you have the better care you can afford. Lets say you go to the dentist and instead of charging you R50 for Novacaine he charges you R10. Great, so how will this change the fact that you still pay R3,500 for siting in his ofice for half an hour.

@pmbguy - Psycoactive drugs - of course they have upsides and downsides and of course they should be prescribedcappropriately. One cannot prescribe Ritalin for every child who has ants in his pants but there is a place for it. The biggest problem I find is not that doctors are pushing the drugs to make money, it is that they either don't know any better or go for a quick and dirty solution. Ritalin aka Cencerta is a wonderful product for those who need it due to miswired forebrains. Various medications are brilliant for the treatment of Bipolar Disorder, the choice that the patient has is to take the medication or jump in front of a train. Side effects can be very very interesting to say the least, side effects are not always negative, to the contrary some may have a more positive effect that the drug itself. Go do some research on the effect of SSRI's on sexual function...there are even more interesting effects I can tell you about. My personal view is that psycology in the main is a total waste of time, what is the point of paying a persom R600 an hour to ask me what I think, I know what I think, I'm paying you R600 to correct my thinking.

Anyhow, yes, I am a hardass about these thing because nobody deserves to be kept alive. The fact that I develop a cure for Aids doesn't mean that you deserve to get it just as much as you don't deserve to get a Porsche. If I get a cure for Aids I sure as hell wont let it loose in Africa, all that will happen is that there will be an extra billion mouths to feed next year.

[adrianh]

Well doctors have obligations. But often you can get a 6 th script. It will depend on condition, the meds and potential side effects.
Similarly that sounds like chronic meds, your doctor should complete the form with medical aid.

Doctors are able to write 6 month prescriptions for medications up to schedule 5. The patient then has to see the doctor to renew the script. A patient has to consult a doctor for schedule 6 and above. Ritalin / Concerta is schedule 6 because of their potential for abuse. Ritalin is closely related to Speed (Meth Amphetamine) in its chemistry and is open to abuse. The problem of course is that you have to spend another R200 per month to get the doctor to write the script.

[AndyD]

But, the fact that those medications bring stability to my life does not mean that I have the right to demand to have them at a low price. Big pharma developed them at great expense and I benefit from that development. If you want to lower the cost of medication then go for the middle men, go for the doctors who are associated with pharmacues, private hospitals and medical aids...........

If you thing the big drug companies aren't illegally price rigging and abusing patents to prevent generics appearing on the market after their patents have expired then I would suggest you start reading here http://www.ftc.gov/news-events/media...tion/pay-delay. There's about 20 relevant links on there as well, if you still need more info after that I'll be happy to point you in the right direction.

[adrianh]

Fair enough but do you know that generics also have very serious problems. Generics may have the same ingrdients but don't always have the same effect. It seems that there is a lot to be said for manufacturing processes that contributr to the effectiveness of drugs. Pharma does not have to disclose these processes. Prozac has an equalalent called Nuzac and the effect are not the same. Another issue is that generic manufacturers cannot be held liable for negative side effects caused bt the drugs that they produce. They claim that they manufacture the same product that was patented by the original company and therefore are not accountable for side effects. The patent holder says that the did not manufacture the drug and cannot vouch for the manufacturing techniques used thus they are also not responsible. Generic come with an upside and downside, you may get them cheap but when the crap hits the fan you're on your own.

[tec0]

Fair enough but do you know that generics also have very serious problems. Generics may have the same ingrdients but don't always have the same effect. It seems that there is a lot to be said for manufacturing processes that contributr to the effectiveness of drugs. Pharma does not have to disclose these processes. Prozac has an equalalent called Nuzac and the effect are not the same. Another issue is that generic manufacturers cannot be held liable for negative side effects caused bt the drugs that they produce. They claim that they manufacture the same product that was patented by the original company and therefore are not accountable for side effects. The patent holder says that the did not manufacture the drug and cannot vouch for the manufacturing techniques used thus they are also not responsible. Generic come with an upside and downside, you may get them cheap but when the crap hits the fan you're on your own.

Actually you are wrong... they can be held accountable by the simple fact that the processes "As you claim is not the same" THUS there product CANNOT be the same. If they make a pain pill and it ends up being poison then it doesn’t matter what they claim the reality is they gave you poison thus they will be accountable on that fact alone.

The reality is “if” there is a difference “no matter how small” it cannot be the same thing.

[AndyD]

Fair enough but do you know that generics also have very serious problems. Generics may have the same ingrdients but don't always have the same effect. It seems that there is a lot to be said for manufacturing processes that contributr to the effectiveness of drugs. Pharma does not have to disclose these processes.....

The FDA dsagrees with what you're saying.

Are generic drugs as effective as brand-name drugs?

Yes. A generic drug is the same as a brand-name drug in dosage, safety, strength, quality, the way it works, the way it is taken and the way it should be used.

FDA requires generic drugs have the same high quality, strength, purity and stability as brand-name drugs.

Not every brand-name drug has a generic drug. When new drugs are first made they have drug patents. Most drug patents are protected for 20 years. The patent, which protects the company that made the drug first, doesn't allow anyone else to make and sell the drug. When the patent expires, other drug companies can start selling a generic version of the drug. But, first, they must test the drug and the FDA must approve it.

Creating a drug costs lots of money. Since generic drug makers do not develop a drug from scratch, the costs to bring the drug to market are less; therefore, generic drugs are usually less expensive than brand-name drugs. But, generic drug makers must show that their product performs in the same way as the brand-name drug.

Source

Obviously there's very slight differences between generic drugs and original drugs but the differences are carefully regulated within very small margins by the FDA who give the drug approvals. Generic drugs go through an approval process exactly the same as the brand name drug does, they are held to exactly the same standards.

There's lots of marketing to the point of misinformation about original drugs being better than generic drugs but it simply isn't true.

What is true is that original drugs are usually between 2 and 3 times more expensive than their generic equivalents. I can't imagine how large their profit margins are plus they have their 20 year patent protection advantage.

[adrianh]

How exactly does it disagree with me?

[adrianh]

Look at this:

http://www.webmd.com/depression/features/generic-antidepressants-what-you-need-to-know_

http://www.infowars.com/generic-drug-companies-granted-immunity-against-lawsuits-from-patients-harmed-by-side-effects/

Another drug where then original and generic are somewhat different is Cipramil and its equivalent Cipralex.

I am not saying that generics are bad per se, what I am saying is that the saving in money comes with risks that people are not made aware of.

[iLLuDeano]

I wouldn't trust infowars and Alex Jones. He is a inside man, stay away.

I am also using medication for depression and I used to be on Ritallin and Concerta for ADHD. Both these drugs made my life !!HELL!! . No ther way to state this. I can't begin to explain the negative side effects, from massive eating problems (I ate one meal a day, half of what I was supposed to at night) To sleeping problems. I slept 4-6 hours at the most every night. Yes my concentration was better BUT, HUGE BUT!! That didn't make up for the malnutrition. I was 10kg's under weight, I became unfit. I had to stop playing rugby, (I actually got WP colors before I started with the medication) All of this, and I paid R600 now R800 for 30 tabs. It killed me slowly. I'm off it now for 3 years, my concentration improved by just practicing meditation techniques every odd day.

Weed also helped, (Don't laugh) I started smoking weed when I was 18. All of a sudden I could study for 3-4 hours without stopping, I picked up some weight, my emotions became stable and today I'm healthy and off medication. I just take a very light anti-depressant to help with moods.

The FACT of the matter is not the profits. I don't care paying R800 for something that could better my quality of life. My problem is paying R800 a month for drugs that kills me quicker than illegal drugs(Weed)

If anything. Don't give your kids drugs for ADD or ADHD... you will ruin their lives!! Rather put in extra effort to help them study and pass school. When you get older, you grow out of it and responsibility overshadows a minor attention flaw.