Gupta Wedding: Blue lights brigade

[Citizen X]

... and there was not only the chartered Boeing, there was also private jets and helicopters. So a whole invasion force could land at a "key point" and no-one would know about it. After the invasion there will be finger pointing and some more junior heads will roll, but it will be too late, won't it?

And, this my friend brings me to my main question: Is this the type of behaviour that is becoming of a newly appointed South African Citizen? Maybe, it’s just me, but if you get citizenship in another country, you’ll do your utmost to abide by that Countries rules, regulations, policy and procedure. Atul Gupta is not a layman, he can’t plead ignorance to matters of such strategic importance.
I really commend our media. I love our South African media except for that New Age newspaper! I will never buy that paper ever!!!!

[Blurock]

And, this my friend brings me to my main question: Is this the type of behaviour that is becoming of a newly appointed South African Citizen? Maybe, it’s just me, but if you get citizenship in another country, you’ll do your utmost to abide by that Countries rules, regulations, policy and procedure. Atul Gupta is not a layman, he can’t plead ignorance to matters of such strategic importance.
I really commend our media. I love our South African media except for that New Age newspaper! I will never buy that paper ever!!!!

If it was not for the media, we would not know half of what is happening. As it, we only know half any way.

[Citizen X]

If it was not for the media, we would not know half of what is happening. As it, we only know half any way.

This makes for some interesting reading though....

http://mg.co.za/article/2013-05-05-malema-calls-for-treason-charges-against-guptas

[ians]

Shame some poor sucker will take the fall, and be rewarded generously in the distant future, like our mate Mr shaik who lives a life of luxury for taking the rap.

[Didditmiself]

If it was not for the media, we would not know half of what is happening. As it, we only know half any way.

And that is why they want to gag the press and anybody else that has information that shows up their highly developed ability of corruption, wastage of tax payers money, bribery, theft and general malfeasance. The sentence for being found in possession of 'classified information' is a fine of draconian proportions; R25 000 or 20 years in the slammer!!

[CLIVE-TRIANGLE]

Hi people
I found this particular contrast very amusing; when the news broke, it seemed no officials knew anything. Yet the journalists were there and waiting! Clearly somebody tipped them off.

Also, how on earth did the journalists get access to the base? It was a good many years ago, but things can surely not have changed that much ... even in military uniform, unless you had an access permit there is just no way you got past the gate. Yet they did. As well as the bogus blue-light rabble.

The footage of the convoy similarly begs an explanation. Somebody had knowledge, was unhappy about the whole story, and gave the journos a heads up.

[Citizen X]

The footage of the convoy similarly begs an explanation. Somebody had knowledge, was unhappy about the whole story, and gave the journos a heads up.

A very good afternoon to you Clive-Triangle If that be the case, thank goodness for the person who gave such a meaningful tip-off!
What grabs me is that Premier Helen Zille, an official was not allowed access to Inkandla and we not allowed to even take photograph of Inkandla, yet Gupta is allowed to enter thye base to welcome his guests for a private wedding function, all this at a National Key point which just happens to be a millitary airforce base...
Why have no charges been brought against the Guptas???

[vieome]

@Citizen X, the Problem with DA is that they are a very weak opposition, it is like they dont even dream of Governing but instead they dream of being the opposition. If Obama can be President no reason Zille cant win even if she thought to be L.Os from the Old Era.

If DA simply started campaining for 1 term only on the grounds that CanCer need a wake up call, they might nudge voters in their direction. Simply ask Voters for one term only that way fears of going back to old era are not in the minds of the voters.

[Blurock]

@Citizen X, the Problem with DA is that they are a very weak opposition, it is like they dont even dream of Governing but instead they dream of being the opposition. If Obama can be President no reason Zille cant win even if she thought to be L.Os from the Old Era.

If DA simply started campaining for 1 term only on the grounds that CanCer need a wake up call, they might nudge voters in their direction. Simply ask Voters for one term only that way fears of going back to old era are not in the minds of the voters.

You can not keep on voting for the same corrupt clique and expect things to improve. If you want change, it starts with you. It does not really matter who you vote for, but voting for the party most likely to bring about some sanity may be a good start. I am not promoting any party, they all have their skeletons, all I am asking is for South Africans to open their eyes and not to follow (any) politicians blindly.

[Citizen X]

You can not keep on voting for the same corrupt clique and expect things to improve. If you want change, it starts with you. It does not really matter who you vote for, but voting for the party most likely to bring about some sanity may be a good start. I am not promoting any party, they all have their skeletons, all I am asking is for South Africans to open their eyes and not to follow (any) politicians blindly.

I too humbly ask my fellow South Africans to vote for change by voting for any other party accept the ruling party!

[Chrisjan B]

I too humbly ask my fellow South Africans to vote for change by voting for any other party except the ruling party!

I fixed the typo for you Citizen X...

[Citizen X]

I fixed the typo for you Citizen X...

Thank you love, I'm actually brain dead at the moment, call it the subtleties of the law!

[Dave S]

The problem is not that the voters don't wish for change, it is more a case of the masses being brainwashed, I mean... have a look around, how do the masses get to work? In the taxis where there are millions of mass voters getting together on a daily bases and they are exposed to the cANCer daily too, why does DA (or any other party) not have their own taxi operators? simple, they would be burned and the operators murdered within the first week. The political "clout" of this country does not come from the elite of society, it doesn't come from the real thinkers, it comes from the masses, the brainwashed masses. As soon as our opposition parties get this and do something about it, we may (and that's a big "may") start to see changes. And, boy, do we need a change...

[Blurock]

How do you educate uneducated people to start asking questions and to start thinking for themselves?

[Citizen X]

The following makes for very interesting reading:

“Fact or fiction: We unravel the Guptagate spin” Sarah Evans, Phillip De Wet[1]

“News that the politically connected Gupta family's wedding delegation touched down at the Waterkloof Air Force base last week brought with it a storm of public denials and rebuttals.
The Gupta family has held their line – that all due protocols were followed in granting permission for the Gupta plane to land at Waterkloof air force base – and documents seen by the M&G show this to be mostly true.
But it is these statements which link them to the protocol procedure, by virtue of their knowledge of what should have been a plainly diplomatic process involving the Indian and South African governments.
The M&G revealed on Tuesday that the plane carrying the Gupta wedding delegation was cleared to land by the South African National Defence Force (SANDF). But it was cleared under the presumption that it was a VIP flight carrying “central government ministers” from India.
Here is a list of claims being made by various figures in the saga, and our analysis of how true those claims could be.
Claim one: Who requested permission for landing

• CLAIM: Haranath Ghosh, a spokesperson for the Gupta wedding said "the family" chartered the jet but permission for it to land was granted “by the Indian high commission, and not the family".

He reiterated that the family knew the air force base was used with the permission of the authorities.
“The permissions were applied for and granted to the Indian high commission and not the family. These rights can be applied for by any foreign embassy. Naturally suitable protocol was used to receive and transport the foreign ministers to the wedding.”

• FACT CHECK: Mostly true. Permission was applied for by the Indian high commission and not the Gupta family. But how did the Guptas know this? This was for the transportation of a “delegation visit” of government ministers from India and the M&G is unaware of any members of the Gupta family who have been appointed as government ministers in India.

Claim two: The role of the SANDF

• CLAIM: Ghosh: “The Gupta family reiterates that permission for aircraft, carrying foreign ministers and other dignatories, was obtained from the SANDF beforehand. No aircraft is able to land anywhere in the world without obtaining prior permission.”
  
• FACT CHECK: Mostly true. But the SANDF officials who gave the go-ahead for the plane to land were clearly under the impression that the purpose of the flight was a “delegation visit”, implying the foreign ministers were visiting South Africa in their professional capacity.

Meanwhile, government’s line, broadly, is that the flight landing was “unauthorised”. In any event, said Defence Minister Nosiviwe Mapisa-Nqakula on May 2, an initial request for help, made by a Sahara “representative”, was turned down “because it was not even formalised”.
This was not a request for the SANDF to clear the landing – it appears to have been an attempt to nudge the SANDF in the right direction, pre-empting a request for clearance “to be made” by the Indian high commission.
What is clear is that the SANDF duly received the request for the “VIP delegation visit” flight to land at Waterkloof, and approved it.
Cue outrage by the defence minister, who wasted no time in rescinding the landing clearance and marching the offending aircraft off the Waterkloof landing strip. This was followed by a security cluster press briefing on Friday, during which Justice Minister Jeff Radebe addressed the media.
Claim three: No official business

• CLAIM: Radebe: "Our particular concern is that the aircraft was carrying international passengers who do not fit the category of government officials or VIPs on official duty."
  
• FACT CHECK: Mostly true. There is no evidence that the few Indian officials on board conducted any official business. In fact, we don't know if they conducted any business at all, besides attending the Gupta wedding. Our documents show that the passengers were considered VIP and that permission was granted for a plane carrying “central government ministers” from India. When requesting permission for the aircraft to land at Waterkloof, officials said the reason was a “delegation visit”.
  
  The flight was specifically referred to as a “VIP” one that would need to land at Waterkloof on April 30 and depart on May 3.

Claim four: Date the landing request was made

• CLAIM: Radebe: “The defence attaché of the Indian high commission sent a request for aircraft clearance directly to the Air Force Command Unit within the South African National Defence Force (SANDF) on April 4 2013."
  
• FACT CHECK: Mostly false. Our documents show the first request for the plane to land was sent in February. The letter referred to by Radebe was the second communiqué on the subject.

Claim five: The international relations department's role

• CLAIM: Mapisa-Nqakula: "The Waterkloof Air Command Post received information from the state protocol section of the department of international relations and co-operation, regarding an aircraft carrying state ministers from India and they should assist with clearance for them to land".
  
• FACT CHECK: Mostly false. Our documents appear to indicate that clearance for the aircraft was granted before anyone at the department of international relations was informed.
  
  Our documents also show the letter was addressed to the chief of defence foreign relations within the SANDF, an office that liaises more directly with top commanders and the ministry of defence.

Claim six: An unauthorised landing

• CLAIM: Radebe: The government is investigating the “unauthorised landing of a private plane at the Waterkloof Air Force Base".
  
• FACT CHECK: Mostly false. Our documents show that it was authorised. An apparently standard clearance form, marked "RSA05 External Clearance" was signed. It shows that both customs and immigration officials would be required to deal with the passengers.”

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[1] Mail & Guardian: Sarah Evans, Phillip De Wet: http://mg.co.za/article/2013-05-08-00-fact-or-fiction-we-unravel-the-guptagate-spin. Accessed 8 May 2013