summons

[Sparks]

Not so sure SB has anything to do with it, this time. They were quick to say it was ahead. I reckon it could be an employee passing details to a pal with a PC trying to rip, possibly gullible, clients off.

[murdock]

i quote from a registered letter we have just recieved dated the """26 november 2011"""" the one month outstanding balance and an additional amount of twice the outstanding was already paid 2 months prior to this registered letter...which means effectively the account was ahead by 4 months...at the time this letter was sent.

"we regret to advise you that the .....account has fallen into arrears.........we have been instructed to proceed further against you,.......

we therefore urge you to contact our offices to make suitable payment arrangements as soon as possible, failing which we will proceed against you which "MAY" result in JUDGEMENT being taken against you and / or the SHERIFF of the COURT attending your RESIDENTIAL or EMPLOYMENT address in oder to execute judgement obtained......................."

[tec0]

If you have the paper work to beck yourself up, why allow this kind of abuse? One thing I don’t get the account was 4 months ahead and your wife missed 1 payment “meaning she was 3 months ahead still” or am I missing something?

Also did you speak to the manager in person what did he/she had to say about all of this?

[murdock]

i have spoken to my bussiness bank manager and she has spoken to her branch manager...who did a check on the account to verify that the accounts wasnt maybe in an arrears from another time...no indication...from the search carried out....or should i say nothing the managers could identify.

i need to verify the summons before i make any further comments...i have noted another thread with regards to summons...so i plan on taking another look at the summons to verify some info.

you have to be so careful with these people...my mate has been going thru a rather challenging time...he got a call from his mate who enquired about his house for sale in the newspaper...sale of excusion...but he had failed to keep up with his payment agreement and made no attempt to pay the outstanding balances...so i can understand why he lost his house.

unfortunatetly i have been busy trying to complete some out standing projects...and with staff on leave i have to work on site myself...at least one good thing has come from me being on site...i have managed to secure enough work to keep me busy for the next 6 months to a year.

[murdock]

If you have the paper work to beck yourself up, why allow this kind of abuse? One thing I don’t get the account was 4 months ahead and your wife missed 1 payment “meaning she was 3 months ahead still” or am I missing something?

Also did you speak to the manager in person what did he/she had to say about all of this?

no...she got behind with 1 payment...the bank contacted her...then made 1 payment to get it up to date...and at the same time paid an addtional amount over and above the outstanding amount...and since the incident...she has paid more than twice the amount every month.

and yes i have spoken to my bussiness bank manager and she has contacted her branch manager...who indicated they cannot understand why the summons was issued as the account is more than up to date and has been for a couple if months...

when i enquired at the attorney firm about this...i wa told by the call centre clerk that it was because the account was more than 3 month in the arrears...but still todate cannot give me proof...i was then transfered to the call centre manager who advised me that this is not the case...and that the summons was standard procedure for any outstanding amount no matter whether is was 1 month or 4 months.

another issue which has come to light...my wife has also sent numerous emails to this attorney firm indicating that the outstanding amount was paid in full including an addtional amount...and the bank manger had also contacted them after she had spoken to the bank about the problem...a couple of months ago.

[tec0]

It is a pity your year is going to end on such a crappy note. Good luck to you and keep us posted please. We can all learn from this.

[Dave A]

When it comes to Standard Bank and collections/enforcement, there is little doubt that the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.

I have been following a case involving an employee and vehicle finance. Despite going under debt administration per the NCA, and despite making all payments as instructed by the debt counsellor, the vehicle was still repossessed and sold at auction - apparently without the knowledge of Standard's Vehicle Finance department!

There is something very about their systems when it comes to this sort of thing - a serious disconnect.

[Dave A]

Look what was in my inbox from Standard Bank this morning

Dear Directors

Fraud is defined as 'unlawful and intentional misrepresentation which can lead to actual or potential disadvantage to another individual or group'. It is the use of fraudulent means to obtain money, assets, or other property owned or held by a financial institution, or to obtain money from bank customers by fraudulently representing a bank or financial institution.

Unfortunately, fraud comes in many forms ranging from embezzlement to identity theft to counterfeiting, and while the list of possible incidences is exhaustive, there are certain warning signals which can indicate the occurrence of fraud. Always be aware and arm yourself with the tools and knowledge to prevent fraud happening to you and your business.

Go to .www.standardbank.co.za/securitycentre to find out about the main forms of fraud and what you can do to prevent it!

Just seemed a little ironic given what murdock's dealing with at the moment.

[murdock]

i would like to take a step back and review this issue...

my wife was not managing her overdraft properly...because it had got tooo high for her to manage...so instead of it asssiting her it it became a bad debt...so the bank advised her that they would be reducing her limit by xxxx amount ever month....they have no surety...or any form of security against the overdraft...other wise i can bet my bottom dollar they would have already called in all the sureties...she acepted she was at fault and has been paying the amount every month for about 3 years...until about septemeber...for some reason she failed to pay one month...i dont have a problem at this point because you get into debt you must pay your dues...

the bank contacted her and advised her that she was in the arrears by one month...she admitted guilt and paid the 1 month outstanding...at the same time paid and additional amount with was almost double the outstanding balance...she has been paying the amount agreed with the bank and on top of that amount is now also been paying almost twice the amount addtional...i still dont have a problem with this because she is honouring her debt as agreed between her and the bank...she had gone into the bank and made arangements to pay the outstanding balance and the bank agreed...settled as far as i am concerned...unless she default on payment again which she has not done to my knowledge.

then all this kak started...now in the middle of december...months after the arrears was settled.

she then received a (what the call centre advised) was a setion 121 registered letter dated...26 novemeber 2011with a reference number and an attorney firms details advising her that she was in the arrears and should it not be brought up to date immediately would proceed further against her...and the legal cost to her account....it is at this point that i dont understand...the account was not only up to date at this point...but ahead by a couple of months....i can still understand this letter because it might have been in the system and took some time to get to her.

but then then the summons...this is the part i am confused about...the summons is full the full outstanding balance and not the 1 month amount.

the section 121 letter was dated the 26 november and received and signed for in the begining of decemeber

the summons issued by the so called sherif ...
has a different copy of a registered letter dated the 28/10/201...which is completely different to the section 1231 registered letter she received...via registered mail...and has a full arrears due amount informing her of the interest and rate of interest.
a summons document stamped by the registar of the court 25/11/2011
annexure "A" dated 19/11/2011
cost of law suit
payment sum
interest
alternative relief?


two things which concern me...

1/ the bank denies any knowledge of the summons...and that as far as they are concerned the account is up to date...as per agreement with the bank.
2/ at the time of all this documentation being issued the account was up to date and ahead...according to the agreement with the bank.

i contacted the clerk of the court jhb this morning and requested advice...

the summons is apparently legit...the fact that there are stamped signitures etc is standard practice nowdays...all the relevant documentation is attached to the summons...
you dont have to sign the for the summons...only if you fill out the notice to defend or consent of judgement do they then take it further...


so now that we have cleared up that matter...and i know chances are the summons is legit...the next step is to find out from standard bank why the summons was issued if they agree that the account is up todate...i am awaiting their reply


i have been told by a person in the bank...that the bank should have contacted the attorney firm and notified them that the account was up to date...so why didnt they

[murdock]

i have just got off the blower with the bussiness bank manager...who has also advised me that they cannot understand why a summons has been issued as the account is up to date and also noted that there has been internal enquiries into this matter.

i have tried on numerous occassion this morning to get hold of standard bank legal department...but the line just goes dead every time i get transfered.


in defence...the response from STANLEY BRODKIN MADITSI...it is standard proceedure for them to issue a summons...which indicates to me that it is a bullying tatics to get people to pay up...regardless of the consequences...and if i dont like i should fill out the notice to defend and that i will be liable for all the fees and costs...another scarying tactic knowing what we all know about court cases... the only people who get rich from them are the lawyers.


if this takes until next year this time to get to the bottom of this so it...i am so tired of attornies and companies screwing the man on the street...and we are supose to be the best protected in the world...from where i am sitting it doesnt look like it.

and i am gona say this...if she had the attitude that the bank can go scr*w themselves and run from her problem i would have stepped down and walked away from this and left her to fight her own battle...the fact that she has made numerous attempt to resolve this issue with the bank and paid additional funds into the account to prevent it from happening again..i will support her all the way to court if i have to.

[tec0]

If I may, Consider going to the bank corner the manager and make him type out and sign a letter that her account to their knowledge is in order. Select to defend yourself in court. Talk to your lawyer and hand a copy of this letter in as your defence.

Step two talk to your lawyer about a countersue and if it would be possible to report Standard bank legal division to the appropriate legal boards. Remember you are only reporting them. Not making a case against them.

Once all is said and done, use the advice given here contact every tom dick and harry institution that is suppose to protect people against this type of thing. I am sure your lawyer will know where to start.

Take names and numbers and make it your personal business to make sure these institutions give you full reports. When all of this is done, collect all the reports and go back to your lawyer. If he think you have a case consider a countersue upon his recommendation. “If you wish to go this far”

Or just keep all the reports and stuff handy for “next time”

One thing about banks they tend to be cold hearted and relentless so in my opinion repay them in kind. But this is just a thought you can do whatever you feel like doing.

[IanF]

I agree with Teco, just one twist type up the letter before you see the bank manager with what he has told you and ask him to sign that. People are lazy so if you make it easy for them they will try and help you.

[Dave A]

Actually, just a letter confirming that the account is currently in good standing probably woud be enough for now. I wouldn't press for much more out of the folk at the branch as they may get windy and not give you anything at all in writing.

Then file the intention to defend, raise the issue of jurisdiction and request that the matter be heard in Pinetown or Durban.
Slap down the letter of good standing as part of pleadings.

And ask for dismissal with costs payable by the plaintiff

In terms of the original OD facility reduction agreement, how much longer before the OD facility hits zero?

[murdock]

the bussiness bank manager replied to me this afternoon with an apology...as she did her own investigation into the account...which is not her job as she only deals with bussiness...but advised me that the account is in order and up to date...and has personally reported the incident to the legal department and given me a reference number.

[Dave A]

I really hope it works out, murdock.