summons

[murdock]

unfortunatley it has to do with standard bank again

i get home today to find my wife in tears...apparently the sherrif of the court had just paid her a visit and issued her a summons...for an outstanding debt with standard bank...what i dont understand no identification...no signitures required on any of the documentation for acceptance of the summons...nothing just a pile of papers with stamped signitures

so i enquire about the issue and read the summons...it is for an overdraft facility which she had 3 years ago...they sent her a letter instructing her that they would be reducing her limit by an amount every month...no problem...3 years go by every month the amount is reduced...but unfortunatly one month there is insufficent funds...so my wife being the kind of person she is...goes to the bank and makes arrangement to transfer the outstanding amount...which she does...the lady assisitng her instructs her that all is ok...but she decided to add and additional amount every month by more than twice the amount she has to pay...all is well...not...3 month go by and today she has the sheriff of the court knocking on the front door.

with a summons from Stanley Brodkin Maditsi attorneys...

firstly the summons is not an original...she didnt have to sign for it

the summons has copy across the page...with a stamp and a signiture which is part of the stamp in pink...with the magistrate johanesburg clerk of the court and a case no.

it also has a big red stamp which indicates ACTING SHERIFF

then on the next page a list of fees and another clerk of the court stamp...but this time a signiture indicating the registrar of the court...with a different date.

one of the things i noted was the attorneys signiture MD BRODKIN ...no signiture...just a stamp with a name on it.

then on the last page a nother stamp which indicates that it is suppose to be a registered letter with a break down of the amount owing plus 15.5 % interest which must be paid in 10 days...

so i get on the blower and have my say i contact a person from this attorney firm...terence the most agrogant asshole i have ever delt with on the phone and ask a few questions...and as usual he is just a callcentre employee who has a template with a couple of answers...but when i start getting my back up because of his attitude i go at him...so he gets to a point wher ehe cannot answer my questions anymnore and puts me thru to the call centre manager...who also cannot answer all my questions merely give me the same reply over and over...when i enquired about the sheriff and indicated that i wa sgona take this matter further...i was told that the sheriff who issued the summons was one of their employees...not actually the sheriff...and that the summons was merely a scaring tactic they use to enforce payments...and that there was no legal action or anything being taking it was merly proceedure...because the account is not actually int he arrears

i request a breakdown of the summons with details about the so called bad debt...they are F^&*d nobody can answer the questions or give details...

so i go back to standard bank and request details...

i am told they cannot understand why there has been a summons issued...who instructed it...as the account is up todate and in fact ina credit for 3 months already.

now here is the joke...the manager at standard bank has given me a contact number to report this incident and strongly advised that i go to hello peter and log a complain...

so who is at fault here standard bank...or these rouges who are making a quick buck

why i say a quick buck because there is a R1000 additional fee for summons and judgement attached to the summons for the attorney.

i am starting to wonder if standard bank dont have an internal issue with the bank where an employee is handing out these instructions to the attorney firm for a small christmas bonus

[IanF]

Murdock
That is totally unacceptable. I would contact the law society and register a complaint about the unprofessional behavior. Then contact the banking ombudsman. and complain about Standard Bank.
What is happening to our society that this happens!
Good luck and try not to lose your temper.

[daveob]

and try not to lose your temper.

oops. I think that point was passed with the first sentence of the second paragraph of the original post.

Seriously though, would this tactic, together with the "not a real sheriff" bit, not constitute fraud ??

Tell them that you're laying a charge at the police station.

[tec0]

Find out how much she is owing pay it back in full close the account get your evidence file the appropriate complaints to the appropriate people find out with whom your wife have spoken inside the banks there must be some kind of log I am sure. Open a case against them personally for misconduct/fraud and sink their boat. Then go to the newspapers get your story published and see if the bank likes that...

Send a letter to the bank in question that will be keeping them responsible for ALL losses.

[murdock]

i now have to vefify all the points dicussed in the telephone conversasion...when i advised the call centre person that i was going to take legal action the only reply he could give me...and i quote " if you go to a lawyer it is going to cost you for all the legal fees" then i told him i think not...as i have a mate who is a lawyer who will investigate this summons...his next sentance was..." this is standard proceedure...issuing summons" when he handed me over to the call centre management...i asked her why they had issued summons and requested documentation indicating the 4 outstanding payments....because as the call person indicated it normally takes at least 4 mis payments before they issue a summons or hand over the account.... her response was..." if makes no difference the amount of times...it is proceedure"

the call centre person also indicated that it could be that the amount paid every month was less than she was suppose to pay...but here is the joke...the bank sent her a letter indicating the amount...to begin with...so it cannot be that.

i am still waiting for the documentation from the attorney firm...pretty much what i suspected.

now i need to find out who issued this summons...to verify if it was actually the sheriff or as the customer call centre indicated it is their own sheriff...i am still trying to understand why no documentation was signed with the person who issued the summons signiture and my wifes signiture...surely when they issue any legal document like a summons which is worth anything there should be a date with a signiture?

[murdock]

oops. I think that point was passed with the first sentence of the second paragraph of the original post.

Seriously though, would this tactic, together with the "not a real sheriff" bit, not constitute fraud ??

Tell them that you're laying a charge at the police station.

i think this is what i am gona do this morning...going to the police station to verify the stamps and signitures and validity of the document.

[tec0]

Just a bit of useless info and a thought or two. I am sure your lawyer friend can correct me on this. I stand to be corrected but the bank is obligated to give you all the information regarding the summons? Then if they are slow or none willing can that then be considered as withholding evidence?

[daveob]

i think this is what i am gona do this morning...going to the police station to verify the stamps and signitures and validity of the document.

I wanna be a fly on the wall for that one. If I can (repeatedly) get copies of a copy of a copy of a web printout certified at the stashun, I doubt they have the expertise / intelligence to decipher that one.

A trip to your lawyer might provide a lot more info. Or what about scanning and sending it to one of the TFSA legal experts via PM ?

[Dave A]

This kind of bs really needs to be stopped!

So it's not a real summons - it's a scare tactic?
Unacceptable!

And I think Standard Bank has some explaining to do, particularly if they continue to use the services of this charlatan.

If you're going to do "whatever works", you'd better get used to bad publicity.
If I can add to the list above (law society, hello peter ((only because it is Standard Bank and you do get to a higher level of support that way)), banking ombusdsman) try the following that might also be interested:

Carte Blanche
Debt Collection Council

[tec0]

This kind of bs really needs to be stopped! So it's not a real summons - it's a scare tactic? Unacceptable!

Isn’t that illegal?

murdock If I were you would ask that question to your lawyer friend. To my knowledge it is illegal to falsify a state document such as a summons? Or am I missing something?

[AndyD]

Completely ingoring the ethics which have already been summed up by others, just be very careful, if they have summonsed you and you don't show at the court then they will walk away with a summary judgement. You're life is going to be a lot more miserable if this happens, once they have their judgement it's payday for them, like it or not.

[Dave A]

if they have summonsed you and you don't show at the court then they will walk away with a summary judgement.

I suspect you intended a default judgement, but I agree with your point - you definitely need to make sure it is not a valid summons.

Of course in this instance, if it is a valid summons, it puts the phone call that said it isn't a genuine summons into a different light. It might be argued they're trying to trick you into not showing up - grounds for an application for recission for sure.

[SilverNodashi]

I'd like to see the outcome of this as well. It's about time we take action against banks and other such institutions who (literally) get away with murder due to their unlawful practices.

[AndyD]

I suspect you intended a default judgement, but I agree with your point - you definitely need to make sure it is not a valid summons.

Of course in this instance, if it is a valid summons, it puts the phone call that said it isn't a genuine summons into a different light. It might be argued they're trying to trick you into not showing up - grounds for an application for recission for sure.

Sorry Dave you're right, I meant default judgement. I don't trust these kinda people as far as I could throw then and this is exactly the kind of dirty tricks they'll use to keep you away from the court if they think they can get away with it. Once this happens it's pretty much game set and match.

[Blurock]

Murdock
That is totally unacceptable. I would contact the law society and register a complaint about the unprofessional behavior. Then contact the banking ombudsman. and complain about Standard Bank.

This is criminal. I am sure there must be a penalty for quoting a false case number. Also do report Standard bank and these monkeys they make use of to the Financial Services Board. http://www.fsb.co.za/ as well as the Banking Association SA http://www.banking.org.za/