Running away

[adrianh]

I think that we need to be careful when we compare our own hardships to that of others. Growing up in the middle of a location in 1972 when your father works on a mine 500km away and your mother is a maid in some guy's house in another town is hardly easy. We had/have a support systems - 90% of the others grew up with nothing at all except a shack and a pass book!

My current gardener had no education, he lives where he can afford to live with a wife n two kids and the locals steal everything nice that he takes home.

[We_Know]

I get the feeling that it is becoming fashionable to demonize people that grew up with privileged.

[adrianh]

I get the feeling that it is becoming fashionable to demonize people that grew up with privileged.

Not at all - I just think that one should be cognizant of REAL history. The idea is not to demonize privilege, the idea is just to be aware of it and if one is able to then to try to uplift others as best one can. We can't change the past but we can use it to soften our perceptions to the plight of others.

[We_Know]

Not at all - I just think that one should be cognizant of REAL history. The idea is not to demonize privilege, the idea is just to be aware of it and if one is able to then to try to uplift others as best one can. We can't change the past but we can use it to soften our perceptions to the plight of others.

What do you mean by "REAL" history?
Ok, say the privileged are now aware of it, how will it lead to uplifting others?

I understand that theoretically, privilege is something that is not limited to a specific race, religion, culture etc. However, practically it appears to be targeted more towards certain groups. I want to understand this.

[adrianh]

I am 55 and I know how I grew up vs how my parents gardener / maid' children grew up. I saw the police beating people over passbooks - I saw the police chase people and shove them in vans working without passbooks. My parents maid had to get the police to stamp her passbook when she wanted to travel to another town for a funeral. Her husband worked 500km away on a Gold mine, she worked 100 km away from home and her kid stayed in the location. She got locked up by the police because she had a man (her husband) in her room (that was NOT ALLOWED BY LAW because only one black person was allowed to stay on a property in a white residential area)

You know, I don't get why people make out as if the past never happened - This country was downright nasty to people of color - whether you believe it or not. You choose whether you understand history or whether you don't - nobody can force you. I see hundreds of whites lament the past - oh it was so wonderful, the buses ran, the army was wonderful, we were a proud nation .....in the dreams of a few maybe.... but for the vast majority it was quite terrible.

Anyway, look, I don't care one way or another what other people believe about the past (My daughters were taught a totally different history to that which I was taught - each set of information left out crucial bits of non-politically acceptable information)

I know that I have the ability to make the lives of those around me a little better and I DO - not because I have to but because I CAN - I want their kids to grow up with a little more education than the education that my parents maid's kid got.

[Blurock]

I know that I have the ability to make the lives of those around me a little better and I DO - not because I have to but because I CAN - I want their kids to grow up with a little more education than the education that my parents maid's kid got.

Agreed Adrian. I first became aware of apartheid when I was 7. My mother allowed our domestic to take me to the circus. She bought 2 tickets but I was not allowed in, as the tickets were for coloured people and I was white! I could never understand our religious community supporting apartheid while the Bible says we are all equal under God. Did they put the government before God?

We are now 25 years down the road and although this history should not be forgotten, lest we learn from our mistakes, it is time to move on and not blame all our shortcomings on apartheid. The Ain't no Consequences party had enough time to turn things around, but instead they made it worse. It is now up to us, the ordinary citizens to stand together and build a new country where everyone is given the same opportunities.

[adrianh]

Agreed Adrian. I first became aware of apartheid when I was 7. My mother allowed our domestic to take me to the circus. She bought 2 tickets but I was not allowed in, as the tickets were for coloured people and I was white! I could never understand our religious community supporting apartheid while the Bible says we are all equal under God. Did they put the government before God?

We are now 25 years down the road and although this history should not be forgotten, lest we learn from our mistakes, it is time to move on and not blame all our shortcomings on apartheid. The Ain't no Consequences party had enough time to turn things around, but instead they made it worse. It is now up to us, the ordinary citizens to stand together and build a new country where everyone is given the same opportunities.

My parents were also against apartheid. My dad was an orthopedic surgeon and my mom was a radiographer - they both saw all people as being the same. We grew up in the NG church and at the time black people were not allowed in the church. When my dad passed away my mom had to get special permission to allow black people to attend. I clearly remember them huddled in the corner.

My daughters were born in 1999 and 2000 so they are not a product of the horrible past but rather a product of the "supposed bright future starting in '94" - They do not get the same opportunities - they now contend with BEE and all that nonsense. My daughters are both going to leave the county because of the extreme deterioration of the country as a whole. Our education system seems to believe that if everybody are equally badly educated then that means equality....

[tec0]

What do you mean by "REAL" history?
Ok, say the privileged are now aware of it, how will it lead to uplifting others?

I understand that theoretically, privilege is something that is not limited to a specific race, religion, culture etc. However, practically it appears to be targeted more towards certain groups. I want to understand this.

Right IF you look at the GDP per capita, there is no clear cut line. You do see countries like India that actually does well. Considering last time i check it was something like $2.26 Tn per Capita. i cannot recall properly but South Africa was sitting on $295.44 Bn per capita at one point. So what exactly is it that people want? Truth is simple if local growth isn't properly managed it will get exploited. The sad part is we have very little impact in the over all. But just look for yourself. Nigeria is sitting on $404.65 Bn per capita. Playing the "privilege" hand is stupid it pushes investors away it makes people uneasy and above all it gives the wrong impression. If you want to eliminate poverty then strengthen your economy by keeping it clean. a clean economy is very attractive for investors and a stable unified mentality gives confidence. But above all is infrastructure! You cannot get good investments if you cannot supply good infrastructure. Our biggest problem is corruption and we are interring a situation where money cannot fix our problems and that dear sir is a lot bigger problem then so called privilege. We can grow, we can alleviate poverty but we need leadership.

[ians]

We forget so easily ... I have worked in construction all my life ... I have learnt a lot from all colours of people ... I recall going into pubs in the small towns in the evenings for dinner and a few beers ... we worked as a team and drank as a team ... but it didnt go down well with the locals ... fortunately we also looked after each other.

Back in the day we ate together all shared the same cooldrinks ... there was no "colour bar" ... until I got sick ... then the sharing of anything stopped ... but it had nothing to do with colour.

Whites werent the only ones not wanting to share ... I had 2 really good fishing mates (both Indian) ... I would meet them at their house in their suburb ... then we would head out to our fishing spots ... after a day or night out fishing we would head back to one of their houses and I would be welcomed with food and more food ... I also had to drink a lot of milk (man that curry was hot) they found it rather amusing ... I think the mom was trying to hook me up with one of her daughters ... one day while heading home I was beaten with sjamboks by a group of Indians because I was walking in their suburb ... on another occasion a group of us kids were robbed at knife point ... that was a big mistake back then.

[Blurock]

It is only human for people who are less fortunate to complain about their lot. The Ain't No Consequences party built their policy on rousing the masses and creating civil disobedience. Had they rather worked with the majority of people who voted for a united, non-racial South Africa (1992) , we would have seen a much better country. Instead of building up, they broke down and is still continuing on the same path.

The racist sports minister who is complaining that our Olympic team did not display the demographics of South Africa is living in comfort while black kids have no sports facilities or coaching at their schools. Why? In 25 years they have done nothing! It takes 10 years to be a master at what you do, so it is impossible for Black kids who only start getting proper coaching when they join a club at 16 - 18 to perform at a higher level. That is why Bafana, winners of the Africa cup in 1996 has done so badly since. Black kids that were fortunate to get into private or "white" schools are performing well in a number of sports and especially in rugby, because they have been coached from an early age.

So instead of making all those racist remarks and blaming apartheid, the Ain't No Consequences party should start investing in our youth. Don't just expect the business sector to uplift individuals, but have a national programme where everyone can get the opportunity to learn and perform at their best. Build more schools and sports fields where kids can play and get rid of teachers who do not perform.

[ians]

With what money ... this country seems to have an abundance of surplus funds ... just not to waste on the masses ... the contry might be bankrupt ... but that is not because its doesnt have enough revenue ... merely being mismanaged.

[Justloadit]

The continues blaming the past for what is happening today, does not help the situation, as eventually there will be no help.

What should rather be said is, what can we do today, to help tomorrow. What has happened in the past can not be changed, but what we do today can change tomorrow.

Doing BEE in my opinion is not the way to do it. Taking from one to give another will make both poor. However, teaching some one does make a huge difference, but then again in my experience, only the worthy student is prepared to learn, or else the business lessons are not learnt.

[ians]

We are just as much to blame for our situation in this country ... we have the skills and the experience to make shyte happen in this country ... but instead we choose not to stick together and makes things happen.

All it takes is a meeting and then an action and another action and so it spreads ... but if people cant even come together like they did during the looting (look what we achieved) ... the reis no hope for this country.

[Blurock]

I agree with you guys, but I cringe when I see business people bend over backward to appease the Ain't No Consequences party. Some of their policies are common piracy such as BEE, Land Reform, cadre deployment etc. Corruption starts at the top as it is their policy that a portion of the tender proceeds should go to the party.

There are very few business people who have the balls to stand up to these pirates and tell them NO More!
Don't think that you can stay neutral and just go with the flow. They will fry you like a frog (quote Ramaposa).
Politics and mismanagement of a country starts with politicians and business people who aid them in their corruption.

You have a voice, you have a vote; use it!

[We_Know]

I am 55 and I know how I grew up vs how my parents gardener / maid' children grew up. I saw the police beating people over passbooks - I saw the police chase people and shove them in vans working without passbooks. My parents maid had to get the police to stamp her passbook when she wanted to travel to another town for a funeral. Her husband worked 500km away on a Gold mine, she worked 100 km away from home and her kid stayed in the location. She got locked up by the police because she had a man (her husband) in her room (that was NOT ALLOWED BY LAW because only one black person was allowed to stay on a property in a white residential area)

You know, I don't get why people make out as if the past never happened - This country was downright nasty to people of color - whether you believe it or not. You choose whether you understand history or whether you don't - nobody can force you. I see hundreds of whites lament the past - oh it was so wonderful, the buses ran, the army was wonderful, we were a proud nation .....in the dreams of a few maybe.... but for the vast majority it was quite terrible.

Anyway, look, I don't care one way or another what other people believe about the past (My daughters were taught a totally different history to that which I was taught - each set of information left out crucial bits of non-politically acceptable information)

I know that I have the ability to make the lives of those around me a little better and I DO - not because I have to but because I CAN - I want their kids to grow up with a little more education than the education that my parents maid's kid got.

Personal experience and reading up on Apartheid does allow me to understand my privileged position. And I do what I can to help out those that grew up less privileged.

We are living in a situation in South Africa where those that grew up privileged are actively being discriminated against. Discrimination based on race is now essentially reversed. Should I now tell those that benefit from this situation that they should recognize their privilege?