Running away

[adrianh]

"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading"
~Thomas Jefferson

[Blurock]

We are actually "Europeans" who are living in an African country, just like ex-patriots living in Kenya, Zambia, Malawi and so on.

We are "visitors", guests if you like, in our country of birth. It may seem harsh and unjust, but it is how it is.

If you were born elsewhere, doubly so.

If you are of British decent and just here for commercial reasons, this may apply and therefore it is easy to "go back home."
Although I was not born in South Africa, I see it as my home and my country.
I refuse to be called a European living in an African country. I have a right to be here just as much as any other South African citizen.

We should note that it is the small minority that are causing all the turmoil and even the Ain't No Consequences party has a minority support.
In the 2014 election they received only 10 026 475 votes out of 25 390 150 registered. (39.49%) The silent majority did not vote, why?
If all the good people could start raising their voices and stand together, they will make this country great again.
Unfortunately, we do not seem to have the calibre of quality leaders to achieve this.

[Andromeda]

If you are of British decent and just here for commercial reasons, this may apply and therefore it is easy to "go back home."
Although I was not born in South Africa, I see it as my home and my country.
I refuse to be called a European living in an African country. I have a right to be here just as much as any other South African citizen.

We should note that it is the small minority that are causing all the turmoil and even the Ain't No Consequences party has a minority support.
In the 2014 election they received only 10 026 475 votes out of 25 390 150 registered. (39.49%) The silent majority did not vote, why?
If all the good people could start raising their voices and stand together, they will make this country great again.
Unfortunately, we do not seem to have the calibre of quality leaders to achieve this.

On my Dad's side my ancestor was a 1820 settler. On my Mom's side her dutch predecessors got here in the late 1600s. So i think I am entitled to be here. However, what I mean is that South Africa is no longer a white territory at the foot of Africa. It certainly was, but it is now an African country in Africa. If you believe otherwise then I guess you live in a big city somewhere. If however you live in a rural area then you quickly and easily see the difference two decades have made. Perhaps European is the wrong word; "white" is what I meant, but the old regime called us Europeans.

[ians]

White people in SA ... dont try tell them ... they get really upset when you point out how soft they have it ( every white person in this country has at at some stage been privileged)

This movie always reminds me of how white people live in SA ... and now with their estates if just sealed it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlnmQbPGuls&ab_channel=MovieclipsClassicTrailers

[tec0]

( every white person in this country has at at some stage been privileged)

I think at this point it is fair to say you have no idea what you are talking about... So i suggest to drop the topic...

If you wish to be provocative i suggest addressing another topic because you will

1 > Get people in trouble

2 > Operators admins and the like will have to sit with the fallout again. That would not be fair towards them or anyone else.

Last point... People worked HARD for what little they have and if you want to play this card then i have no respect for you.

END

[adrianh]

I think at this point it is fair to say you have no idea what you are talking about... So i suggest to drop the topic...

If you wish to be provocative i suggest addressing another topic because you will

1 > Get people in trouble

2 > Operators admins and the like will have to sit with the fallout again. That would not be fair towards them or anyone else.

Last point... People worked HARD for what little they have and if you want to play this card then i have no respect for you.

END

@tec0 - I've learned to consider this forum to be like a great hall of debate:
1. Each person gets to stand up on stage behind a curtain and say their piece.
2. The audience can't see the person and the person can't see the audience.
3. The person that has the stage speaks to the entire audience.
4. Each person who chooses to do so gets to have the stage and they then have to follow the same rules.
5. The most important rule is that one should not address the character of any person but rather that one should debate the topic at hand.

Another analogy is that of a courtroom - Lawyers get to make up all sorts of stories and tell them as the "truth as they see it in the best interest of their client" - The lawyers own character is not at play. The opposing lawyer gets to answer with their version of "the truth as they see is in the best interest of the client" - The debate is between the two "truths" - the character of the lawyers is not important.

The bottom line, as I've learned, is that we should debate without attacking the other person's character but rather debate the topic at hand. We can only learn and teach if we are willing to throw ideas around - no matter how unsavory those ideas might seem to us.

[adrianh]

White people in SA ... dont try tell them ... they get really upset when you point out how soft they have it ( every white person in this country has at at some stage been privileged)[/url]

I have to agree with this part of the statement only - "every white person in this country has at at some stage been privileged"
The rest of the statement is a bit too sweeping in my view.

[Derlyn]

@tec0 - I've learned to consider this forum to be like a great hall of debate:
1. Each person gets to stand up on stage behind a curtain and say their piece.
2. The audience can't see the person and the person can't see the audience.
3. The person that has the stage speaks to the entire audience.
4. Each person who chooses to do so gets to have the stage and they then have to follow the same rules.
5. The most important rule is that one should not address the character of any person but rather that one should debate the topic at hand.

Another analogy is that of a courtroom - Lawyers get to make up all sorts of stories and tell them as the "truth as they see it in the best interest of their client" - The lawyers own character is not at play. The opposing lawyer gets to answer with their version of "the truth as they see is in the best interest of the client" - The debate is between the two "truths" - the character of the lawyers is not important.

The bottom line, as I've learned, is that we should debate without attacking the other person's character but rather debate the topic at hand. We can only learn and teach if we are willing to throw ideas around - no matter how unsavory those ideas might seem to us.

Amen brother. Post of the day. No, let's make that the post of the year.

Peace out ... Derek.

[Justloadit]

White people in SA ... dont try tell them ... they get really upset when you point out how soft they have it ( every white person in this country has at at some stage been privileged)

In using the same sweeping statement, "every person in this country/world, or any country has at some stage been privileged"

Borrowing a statement from Google
People can be privileged in many different ways, but it always means that they're getting some unusual deal that others probably envy.

Whenever this statement is used, check out what the narrative is!
So who is currently privileged?
Does that not also hold water?

[Derlyn]

In using the same sweeping statement, "every person in this country/world, or any country has at some stage been privileged"

Borrowing a statement from Google
People can be privileged in many different ways, but it always means that they're getting some unusual deal that others probably envy.

Whenever this statement is used, check out what the narrative is!
So who is currently privileged?
Does that not also hold water?

We are all privileged. ...... We are alive !

Peace out ... Derek

[tec0]

@tec0 - I've learned to consider this forum to be like a great hall of debate:
1. Each person gets to stand up on stage behind a curtain and say their piece.
2. The audience can't see the person and the person can't see the audience.
3. The person that has the stage speaks to the entire audience.
4. Each person who chooses to do so gets to have the stage and they then have to follow the same rules.
5. The most important rule is that one should not address the character of any person but rather that one should debate the topic at hand.

Another analogy is that of a courtroom - Lawyers get to make up all sorts of stories and tell them as the "truth as they see it in the best interest of their client" - The lawyers own character is not at play. The opposing lawyer gets to answer with their version of "the truth as they see is in the best interest of the client" - The debate is between the two "truths" - the character of the lawyers is not important.

The bottom line, as I've learned, is that we should debate without attacking the other person's character but rather debate the topic at hand. We can only learn and teach if we are willing to throw ideas around - no matter how unsavory those ideas might seem to us.

When i look at the statement below:

(every white person in this country has at at some stage been privileged)

No... The motive here is clear... i lost my respect for this person because he made a choice not to respect every single person that has it hard and is in terrible situations. He doesn't have to look far or look very hard to see the truth. It is all around us each and every day. i for one will not "cheapen" someone's suffering by debating this blatant lie. a great many people of all races are born into poverty. This i know to be true. Many people worked for years and years to earn what they have. Now that hard work and sacrifice must be overlooked? No...

Debate is all fine and dandy but in this situation the intention was very clear.

[Dave A]

...made a choice not to respect every single person that has it hard and is in terrible situations. He doesn't have to look far or look very hard to see the truth. It is all around us each and every day. i for one will not "cheapen" someone's suffering by debating this blatant lie. a great many people of all races are born into poverty. This i know to be true. Many people worked for years and years to earn what they have. Now that hard work and sacrifice must be overlooked? No...

And even then, the white kids had ready access to quality primary education, at least far better than folk from the majority race group who came from families in the same situation.
That isn't "white privilege"?

This point is made without seeking to undermine struggle, hard work and "coming from poverty" issues. They are valid issues. Everyone has different starting points and different struggles along their path. However, it's hard to deny a better education helps equip one better to overcome those challenges. (Without diving down the rabbit hole of whether the content of any particular curriculum is actually appropriately helpful towards life success).

[ians]

I dont loose respect for anyone on social media ... it is a platform to share your opinion or experience in life ... see things from a different angle ... where you are free to share you opinion ... one thing I enjoy about this forum is the moderators are fair and have an open mind ... I am sure if what I was saying was bullshyte ... I would have received a warning and been blocked

I got to ride on the blue bus ... sit on the soft seats in the front of the train ... use the cleaned white only toilets in Town.

I got to go to a decent school ... even though all my clothes were purchase at the thrift shop and I never got to wear a new pair of shoes or rugby boots ... my father was a fork lift driver on the railways with 5 children to feed and educate.

I hated my father my entire youth ... because he didnt have the money to buy us kids Christmas present like all the other kids or go on school outing or holidays at the end of the year.

Then one day ... I went out into the real world and faced the challenges that life brings ... my opinion of my father has since changed considerably.

By the way ... I didn't start life with a trust fund or rich parent to support me every time I slipped up ... every single thing in my life I have had to work many many many hours to achieve ... I have lost everything in my life to a point that I was on the street with a bag of clothes ... and yes even with all these challenges in my life I have still at some point been privileged ... thanks to the colour of my skin.

People talk about hard work making you rich ... dont believe for a minute ... if it was true I would be up there with Bezos

[Blurock]

On my Dad's side my ancestor was a 1820 settler. On my Mom's side her dutch predecessors got here in the late 1600s. So i think I am entitled to be here. However, what I mean is that South Africa is no longer a white territory at the foot of Africa. It certainly was, but it is now an African country in Africa. If you believe otherwise then I guess you live in a big city somewhere. If however you live in a rural area then you quickly and easily see the difference two decades have made. Perhaps European is the wrong word; "white" is what I meant, but the old regime called us Europeans.

That is exactly why we should get our racist govt, the far right the middle end left leaning groups to see us all as South Africans. Whatever happened to the rainbow nation? Instead of learning from each other about goodwill, ubuntu, respect for elders etc, we point fingers and build barriers. Yes, we are an African country, but as the so-called leaders in Africa we should uphold our moral values and set an example to others.

[tec0]

And even then, the white kids had ready access to quality primary education, at least far better than folk from the majority race group who came from families in the same situation.
That isn't "white privilege"?

This point is made without seeking to undermine struggle, hard work and "coming from poverty" issues. They are valid issues. Everyone has different starting points and different struggles along their path. However, it's hard to deny a better education helps equip one better to overcome those challenges. (Without diving down the rabbit hole of whether the content of any particular curriculum is actually appropriately helpful towards life success).

Good day Dave A, firstly i need to ask what the function of this label is? That is a debate between you and your conscious. Fact is thousands are born into poverty. Thousands of all ages walk a terrible bath and they do. i can say this because i go where others don't and see first hand what is happening i try to help where i can. So many made a choice to ignore this and claim "they can do this that or the other thing"... If only that was true. Some do get out, if they get an opportunity and they work HARD to make that opportunity work for them. i see social workers breaking up families, i see a monstrous attitude of many and how they look down on those that actually really need to be uplifted/helped.

So again what is the purpose of this label? Who brought it into existence and why? In short people have hell, like it or not today in 2021 people have hell, there lives are hell. How will this label improve their situation?

Thus excuse my anger when it comes to labels, and the like... i saw first hand what those labels do and how many opportunities it takes away. So i cannot in good conscious condone it.