Inspiring

[adrianh]

Vanash, on the balance of probabilities these things are bound to happen now and then. Why don't you talk about the billions of times that it doesn't happen. I honestly cannot understand how obviously intelligent people such as yourself can turn an anecdote into a rule. Its one anecdote. If what you say were true don't you think that people wouldn't have figured out how to harness it. Now you're going to tell me about religion but remember that you cannot speak about religion from a perspective of proof, yes you can speak anecdotally but that's about it. Now, everybody have talked about anecdotes here and there but nobody has answered any of my questions regarding the negative side. How do you explain a 16 year old girl getting brutally raped, how do you explain the crusaders running about and killing Moslems left right and centre, how do you explain George W Bush living a lavish life of luxury, how do you explain random violence, getting stabbed for no reason.

Look, I am not trying to convince you of anything, what you believe is your choice, I can only say that I do not believe that the odd positive anecdote proves anything whatsoever. Show me scientific proof, show me how praying changing any outcome, no my friend, you create your own reality within your mind and you connect random events to prove a belief.

[Justloadit]

The frame of mind that occurs after an event whether good or bad, definately influences your very next decision, which off course will influence your future.
If the activity makes you feel good, the the probablity of making the 'right' decision is much more prone to happen, as opposed to making a decision, after aso called bad experience.
An example is that you are driving, and a taxi simply cuts in fromt of you, and stops to pick up a passenger. Depending on your frame of mind, you can get irratated, whcih will influence you next decision that may arise in the next few seconds. It can either be a 'good' decision, or a 'bad' decision. The probability it is going to be a 'bad' decisoin because of your current emotional state will influence your future and you life for ever, it could be a yellow light, or it could be that you are not looking at your rear view mirror as you change lanes.

The so called act of doing 'good' sets your mind into a state of making 'good' decisions. The idea is then to always try and keep your mind and emotions in a 'good' state to give your life and future in a so called 'good' way.

[adrianh]

Yes, I fully agree with you but the others claim that the universe keeps score and rewards them by providing positive eventst o happen in their lives.

I simply cannot see how two random events can be selected from thousands of random events and then claimed to be linked.

[Dave S]

DaveS.

Okay, please site any study that proves that nice things happen to nice people. If what you say is true, that the universe rewards good deeds then howcome Robert Mugabe & George W Bush are fat and happy.

Our attitudes determine how we perceive events, they do not cause random events to happen. If you are an optimist your will generally see the positive in any event and if you are a pessiment you will see the negative. Your view does not cause the event to occur, your view merely justifies the reason for the event occuring in your own mind. The fact that you feel good about doing someting nice is your own internal process and has nothing to do with the universe per se.

The problem is that what we consider to be doing something nice, or positive is generally a social standard. If postive acts are rewarded with positive random events then it stands to reason that negative acts are rewarded with negative random events. How do you explain the 16year old girl, who never hamed a fly getting violently raped - what did she do to deserve such a punishment, and further, lets say the rapist is truly sorry and turns to God, will he no longer be punished. What about the soldier who kills people for his country, many of them have good lives and live fairly average lives without getting punished for their deeds.

DaveS, don't confuse perception and reality, they are not the same. Further, I am not saying that one should or shouldn't done nice things for people and I am not saying that I do, or I don't do nice things for people, I am merely saying that your perceived reward lives in your head, nowhere else.

I had a long discussion with my GP yesterday and at one point during the discussion he started laughing and said that I shouldn't be so brutally realistic, maybe, but in my world, whether one sees the glass as half full or half emply has no bearing on the objective state of the glass, the glass simply contains 50% of its total capacity. Your perception does not change reality, all it changes is the emotional value that you attach to your reality

Adrian, What are you on about? I never said that good guys get good things, and bad guys get bad things. My comment quite simply refers that the old "do unto others..." is not entirely true, the universe doesn't keep score and, yes, one's attitude toward events will dictate the emotional value of anything that does/doesn't happen.

But when we do good things and we aren't rewarded for it, does that mean we must then stop doing the good things? Is the reward simply "on hold"? Likewise, with any wrong doing.

[Dave S]

... How do we see "reward"? Reward will very seldom take a monetary form, after all, when we help others we don't do it for financial gain, or do we? "The universe is watching or Kharma", is more of a mind-set than an actual happening/being/alien/whatever, it relates to our attitude.

To explain my point, Mr. X stops at robot to give a beggar his lunch, Mr. X knows that he will survive until lunchtime when he can simply get himself a burger at the local McD and he thinks nothing of it. For the beggar the case is that he gets to eat a sandwich for the first time this week.

1. - Suddenly he has more energy and now he grabs a gun and hijacks someone else a little later. OR
2. - He breaks the sandwich in two and offers the other half to his crippled friend and they both experience a brighter sky, for today at least.

1. Mr. X gets a phone call to say his Daughter was held at gunpoint and they stole her car, his daughter is fine but shaken. He is happy that his daughter is fine and ascribes it to his act of kindness, "I'll give away my sandwiches again tomorrow", he thinks. OR
2. Mr. X gets a phone call to say that his Daughter was killed in a car accident a short distance down the road. "I'll never give away another sandwich", he thinks, "the kindness I have shown has been rewarded with horror".

Mr. X could not have known that this series of events was to take place and his perception will be based on his attitude.

I often order a take-out delivery from Sandwich Baron and when the package arrives I always give a tip to the driver, normally R5 or R10. A week ago I was at the baron and ordered a sarmie at the counter, the delivery guy shows up and buys it for me, and he wouldn't take no for an answer. At the other end of the scale, I helped a friend with a vehicle problem that would have cost his company about R18K, I did it for R2.5K, about a year later I needed his help, he didn't. Will I help him again, of course, I didn't do it for gain, I did it to help a friend in need.

[adrianh]

DaveS - I think that you're clutching at straws. What you are doing is commonly referred to as "Curve fitting". You are taking an outcome and fitting a series of events to the outcome and then saying that the series of events caused the outcome. Unless you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that one thing led to another then you have no case - all you have if a made up story.

It's like saying I thought of my wife and the phone rang and it was her. - Well there is a damn good probability that it would happen sooner or later - I tink of her very often but the phone doesn't ring.

You see, all these thing are an abuse of statistics, we call something a rule when we like what we think happened yet we don't consider the 99.9999999999999% of the time that is doesn't happen.

I am a very giving person, I give money to people quite often and I often help people out in various ways be it financially, be it by doing work for free or just giving my time. I do it because I want to, not because I expect a reward or I feel its the right thing to do, I simply make a judgement call and do it. Some abuse it and some are thankful. But, doing so has very little effect on my mood or my attitude, it is simply like deciding whether to buy one printer or another, there is no emotion, religion, outcome, reward, punishment or anything like that in the thought process, it is simply a measured judgement call based on the circumstance at the time.

[Citizen X]

I honestly cannot understand how obviously intelligent people such as yourself can turn an anecdote into a rule.

A very good morning to you Adrian

Thank you for the compliment, though the one thing about myself that I'm trying in earnest to clarify is that I'm NOT intelligent, I'm definitely NOT wise. I actually don't want to be part of that wise intelligent club, I chose to be part of the foolish and weak club

[Dave A]

hhhmmm...it seems my point is lost in translation.

It would seem so, but it's sure making for an interesting debate

Maybe take a moment to read The Law of Attraction. I've linked to the thread on TFSA where it was originally discussed and amended the link to the actual piece. It seems relevant to this discussion and I'm more than a little curious as to what you might think of it.

[adrianh]

Vanash, intelligence and wisdom is inherent in those who are willing to debate and evolve their beliefs and perspectives. Intelligence is not a function of knowledge per se, it is a function of ability to reason/evaluate/comprehend and respond to, be it logically, abstractly or emotionally.

Having the ability to look inward and claim to be not intelligent is intelligence at work - Catch 22...

[Dave S]

DaveS - I think that you're clutching at straws. What you are doing is commonly referred to as "Curve fitting". You are taking an outcome and fitting a series of events to the outcome and then saying that the series of events caused the outcome. Unless you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that one thing led to another then you have no case - all you have if a made up story.

That's exactly what it was, a made-up story. I wasn't trying to use a "curve fitting" or "stats abuse" to make a point, I was just trying to emphasise that income and outcome are very seldom equal and a random series of events may or may not be connected. Point is, what you put in does not always justify what you get out, but do it anyway.

[Nickolai Naydenov]

Adrian, this is just for you:

http://news.sky.com/story/1144158/boston-honest-homeless-man-fund-tops-100k

Please don't tell me that it doesn't happen for real. You reap more than what you sow always. If everyone could just give wholeheartedly this world would be so much better. Everyone can take, but I tell you when you give it is an awesome feeling, you should try it sometime.

[adrianh]

Aye Nic, I don't give a $h1t, the only awesome feeling in the world is when she screams my name and passes out exhausted drenched in sweat. You should ask me to tell you about it some time, but I know you will never experience the feeling!

[Nickolai Naydenov]

I'm really glad for you Adrian

[adrianh]

Thanks man, do you want me to tell you about it or will you just continue to talk and dream about it?

[adrianh]

Hey nic, how's them cops hey, seems them oudjies don't know how to stop them kwaggas from murdering one another. Must be because them boere spend the entire day sleeping under a tree!