Sexual harassment at work

[pmbguy]

I know a young woman who was sexually harassed by her boss for years. It went beyond all measure of depravity.
She would not give up the job, claiming it paid too well. I tried to convince her to film him and sue. She stayed with this company for 4 years and never busted this prick. I have kinda lost touch with her, but I know she is not doing so well.
I think the only way for a man to understand such a thing, is that it is allmost the same as a man sexually harassing you (if you are a streight man)
I do understand the odd office sexual banter, as long as it is reciprocal and wanted, but never physical and certainly never unwanted.
My advice to any woman who is being sexually harassed is to film it and hit the prick down.

[ghostwriter]

ages ago my friends sister had trouble with one of the men at her work
my friend found this man at the local waterhole after a one on one chat
he never bothered his sister again

[pmbguy]

I would have took him to meet his maker if I had the opportunity, that opportunity has passed, the world is better for it

[Dave A]

I think the only way for a man to understand such a thing, is that it is allmost the same as a man sexually harassing you (if you are a streight man)

I watched North Country the other night, and it certainly brought home the difficulties women face in standing up to sexual harassment in the workplace pretty well.

I've had to deal with two cases of sexual harassment allegations at the workplace over the years. One was resolved pretty painlessly. The other was a friggin' nightmare of a case.

[pmbguy]

The other side of coin would be a situation where a man is falsely accused

[Dave A]

The other side of coin would be a situation where a man is falsely accused

And then there's the edge of the coin!

Let me try to summarise the nightmare one quickly.

The lass is continuously skinnering with her co-workers she is having an affair with the guy.
The guy is saying nothing about an office affair - all he can talk about is his girlfriend (who is known to many at the office, but is not the lass doing the skinnering).
Then the lass claims to be pregnant and it's the guy's child, and the bastard won't have anything to do with her anymore.
Co-workers are outraged and bring the whole sordid tale to the boss (that would be me, and it's the first I've heard about any of this).

A good place to pause and ask - if you were in my shoes, what would your next step be?

[Marq]

Take insurance policy out on Lass's life.
Talk to the girlfriend about her potential competition.
Wait for the girlfriend to remove the problem
Split the proceeds from the policy.
Have party at work for disgruntled staff.
Everybody happy.

Seriously now.....mmmmm..........no that was my best suggestion. Nothing coming to mind.

[tec0]

I had a situation with a female worker making sexual suggestions to male workers. She would get really close to the men and her clothing would be well unbuttoned slightly. She wasn’t very attractive mind you...

That said she always seemed to talk dirty make suggestions. Most of the men dismissed it as “playful deviants” but then it got serious. She “targeted” a married man and it ended up him nearly losing his family. And I actually lost my work because of my knowledge that there was a “fling”

[Mike C]

The lass is continuously skinnering with her co-workers she is having an affair with the guy.

Don't know too much about this subject, but would this constitute sexual harassment? I though that if it was consentual it could not be classed as harassment? The very idea of harassment is that unwanted and inappropriated overtures are made by a worker?

I realise that it is only when things go sour that the alarm is usually raised, but if it is accepted (even welcomed ... presumably enough to get pregnant) then it was not harassment?

There is probably much more to the story - but am just asking.

[IanF]

Wow Dave.
My first thought would be set a meeting with you the lass and the guy. Have a visible recording device, then ask them are they having an affair. Then you need the patience of Job and wisdom of Solomon to handle it further.
Good luck

[Dave A]

but would this constitute sexual harassment?

Yep - that was one of a few tough questions.
Was it even company business?
Did we even have grounds to get formally involved?

However, it couldn't be ignored as it was seriously affecting the workplace environment. At the very least it warranted some investigation. So I asked my most senior female member of management to interview the lass and get her full story.

The most damning part of the lass's story was how the alleged affair started. According to her, the guy approached her, insinuated that he had some influence on her future in the company (arguably true), and that they should go out for drinks sometime. And things pretty much evolved from there.

Faced with this, I haul in the guy - rolled out what we knew/had heard - and the guy flatly denied all of it. And asked that the lass faces a disciplinary for her malicious slander and rumour mongering.

In the face-off meeting, (which I had senior female member of management attend too), the guy also demands a paternity test to prove his innocence.
The lass was a mess and was demanding nothing.
I offered that the company would foot the bill for the test if she wanted it; she should get counsel (senior management member made herself available) and get back to me in the next two days with what she wanted to do.
The next morning the lass comes into work and announces she's had a miscarriage.

Neither party could (or would) offer a shred of corroborating evidence that would support their side of the story.
I persuaded the guy to drop his call for a disciplinary of the lass.
Both parties ended up leaving the company within the next 6 months.

[Mike C]

Wow! That's a very interesting story. Not for you as you were going through it ... but it has lots of fascinating twists and turns. I can understand your difficulties in trying to sort it out ... which ... may I say, sounded top notch!

[Dave A]

Thanks for the compliment, Mike.

I can understand your difficulties in trying to sort it out

Not as difficult as dealing with my reservations about posting the story here, and carefully picking out just how much I could say and how to say it

My hope in sharing it is that it might encourage people to tackle the problem of sexual harassment promptly (with some careful thought and sensitivity of course) if they ever come across it, rather than try to ignore it or sweep it under the carpet.

(Marq's post also made me feel a bit better about mentioning this case too )

[pmbguy]

@Dave A - Tough one. The truth is that, the truth will probably never be known. If that’s even possible. It is a checkers board filled with grey areas in-between the lines. I do wish all parties their justice, if justice is warranted.
I wrote this thread as it came to mind, felt it prudent given my thoughts on that day.
As you said: “...and there is the edge of the coin” This edge is Larger and more complicated as the analogy would allow, but finer than it might imply.

[IanF]

Dave
That both of them left is probably best for the company but does lead to some head scratching. You did have the wisdom and patience. What type of reference do you give for them?