Life Exsists...

[Dave S]

Here's some food for thought, it's supposed to be fun and excersize for the mind, and I'm sure it will spark a lot of conjecture.

We've all dealt with the opposing views of "Creationism" vs "Evolution" (no i'm not going to start bible bashing, or vice versa).

"Creationism": God created everything from nothing (basically speaking)
"Evolution: Everything came into being as a process starting with the "Big Bang" (basically speaking)

And now the conundrum question: Can life exsist without previously exsisting?

Please read the question carefully and make sure you understand it, and for those of us that may not be able to follow, please explain your answers.

Have Fun...

[adrianh]

Please clearly define the word LIFE

[chris_kzn]

I choose Creationism - we have to have been made from something by someone and so the Bible clearly defines it.

[Dave S]

I dunno, what's your take on it, that's part of the question, at least i think it is?

To me life is its simplest form, eats, drinks, breathes, produces waste, etc. and dies?

[pmbguy]

[QUOTE=Dave S;87378]
And now the conundrum question: Can life exsist without previously exsisting?

QUOTE]

I don’t think life, as a prerequisite, has to exist before, before life can exist.

Also, consider the known universe. We know very little, and we don’t really understand what we know yet. Breakthroughs in space/universe knowledge add very little in terms of the realty of space and time. If I consider the universe and reach its border surely it continues beyond that border and where another border exists there must be something beyond that.....and so on.... infinity.

Therefore, my logical conclusion is that life exists somewhere out there as a statistical certainty. It’s a universal numbers game.
So my answer would be that life did/does exist before life here on earth, but not as a prerequisite for life here on earth.

[Dave S]

I choose Creationism - we have to have been made from something by someone and so the Bible clearly defines it.

Aaaah - yes, but what makes the bible correct? (I know it is blind faith) the idea of the question is not to dissprove or approve anything, it's mearly a question designed to make you think, and the further, dare I say it, outside the box you venture, the more intricate your thoughts will get, and the harder they will become for others to understand... LOL

[Citizen X]

Here's some food for thought, it's supposed to be fun and excersize for the mind, and I'm sure it will spark a lot of conjecture.

We've all dealt with the opposing views of "Creationism" vs "Evolution" (no i'm not going to start bible bashing, or vice versa).

"Creationism": God created everything from nothing (basically speaking)
"Evolution: Everything came into being as a process starting with the "Big Bang" (basically speaking)

And now the conundrum question: Can life exsist without previously exsisting?

Please read the question carefully and make sure you understand it, and for those of us that may not be able to follow, please explain your answers.

Have Fun...

1. Order: I have a question or 2 on order! Please set me in the right direction. I would like to paint a picture of a printing shop which has several printing machines, tons of paper, and tons of ink and many freshly printed books. Does the following reasoning have merit? I plant an explosive in this printing shop and the end result of such explosive is a freshly bound unabridged English Dictionary in perfect condition and naturally from A-Z. Can order result from this equation? Order from an explosion!
2. Is my reasoning sound?
3. If not, then please answer me this: How is it possible that perfect order in terms of life, our universe, our sun and moon and stars and our Earth be the end result of a very large explosion called the big bang?

[adrianh]

Can life exsist without previously exsisting?

If one considers that all things, including living things, are made up of common matter then there is no reason for it not to have developed.

It is say saying: Did diamonds exist before they existed....no, diamonds did not exist before they existed but all the constituent materials were around and were compressed and heated to create diamonds. The fact that diamonds did not exist before they were created by extreme pressure and heat does not mean that they were created by a God, all it means is that a set of circumstance was such that they came into being.

[Nigel Hamilton]

Hi Dave,

this is deep

However let me just clarify before I continue, are we talking about life in the body, or life as the divine soul etc etc or whatever you want to call it.

If we talk about the soul, then "I believe" we are a part of the "whole" which has always existed, and we are "that" and at the same time "part" of "that."

For us to realise our existance, or let me say to be aware that we exist, can be contemplated by where we are in relation to everything, and therefore relationships help us to realise this.(good or bad)

If we are talking about a physical body, eating breathing and living in 3D (or wherever)then If I am correct, would then summise that thought(all forms) came from the single "I am" that is everything and always was, therefore until I get back, am not 100% sure but think that your answer would therefore be

NO

If You are talking about any living organism, without a soul as such then I think the answer is Yes

except if everything that is living is part of the essence of the whole, that has just not realised it, then I would assume then that it's existence could never have been a possibility, and then we would have to go back to ...NO

Unless I'm wrong of course

[pmbguy]

1. Order: I have a question or 2 on order! Please set me in the right direction. I would like to paint a picture of a printing shop which has several printing machines, tons of paper, and tons of ink and many freshly printed books. Does the following reasoning have merit? I plant an explosive in this printing shop and the end result of such explosive is a freshly bound unabridged English Dictionary in perfect condition and naturally from A-Z. Can order result from this equation? Order from an explosion!
2. Is my reasoning sound?
3. If not, then please answer me this: How is it possible that perfect order in terms of life, our universe, our sun and moon and stars and our Earth be the end result of a very large explosion called the big bang?

The big bang theory is brought about by the fact that, when we observe the universe it is moving apart. So logic says that the universe must have been at the same point at one time, and exploded/expanded outwardly.

There is a new theory that explains that another universe collapsed and appears to have given birth to our universe. This is called the Big Bounce theory.

Order itself is relative to our perception of it.

[Dave S]

1. Order: I have a question or 2 on order! Please set me in the right direction. I would like to paint a picture of a printing shop which has several printing machines, tons of paper, and tons of ink and many freshly printed books. Does the following reasoning have merit? I plant an explosive in this printing shop and the end result of such explosive is a freshly bound unabridged English Dictionary in perfect condition and naturally from A-Z. Can order result from this equation? Order from an explosion!
2. Is my reasoning sound?
3. If not, then please answer me this: How is it possible that perfect order in terms of life, our universe, our sun and moon and stars and our Earth be the end result of a very large explosion called the big bang?

I love your reply, your explosion example shows that you are venturing into the "unknown" and that is exactly what the idea is, to think univesally. Life as we perceve it has limits, but a universe does not, or does it, we just don't know yet. My question would not be whether order can be created by chaos, but if we assume life as we know it to be the only form of life, then the question has to be, where did the soul come from? Is it possible to mix up a bunch of chemicals and get conscious thought?

[Dave S]

Many has been the time that a CEO has asked that his staff must "think outside the box" and I'm sure many of us has used the same phrase, my answer to this would be, why do you limit your staff so severely? Whether you think inside a box or outside a box, you are still seeing a box are you not? Therefore you are setting parameters on your own brain, you are creating limits to your own thought processes. The idea of this little conundrum "can life exsist without previously exsisting" requires you to think universally and beyond, it does not define "life", nor does it define "existing". Yes these are both defined in the Oxford English Dictionary, but this dictionary is a parameter!

If all CEO's and Politicians were to excersise the mind in this way, soon you would not even know if a box exsisted or not, because the parameters would become infinite...

[Dave S]

PS Be warned, I'm sure some people have become insane by these brain exercises, you will know when you have ventured beyond your own parameters!

[pmbguy]

It is not easy to think in terms of life other than our definitions and understanding of it. If there is life somewhere in space and we come across it we may not even know we found life.

We could be inside and part of a huge green space creature, same as bacteria in us, for all we know.

The universal concept of “life” falls outside our human comprehension of it. By “universal concept” I mean the reality/truth of all “life”.

The question of whether life can exist without previously existing is problematic. The very concept of life is unclear to say the least.




I like where you took this Dave S. Thinking about life and the universe forces us to think broadly and deeply. This type of thinking opens our minds to new possibilities, and transcends all aspects of life, including business, politics.............

[vieome]

"Creationism": God created everything from nothing (basically speaking)
"Evolution: Everything came into being as a process starting with the "Big Bang" (basically speaking)

Could be that GOD created evolution, but creationist only start looking at his creation from the point that man becomes aware. The problem of creationist is that they tend to define GOD in their image, mistaking a verse from the bible that says GOD made man in his image. Scientist at present are chasing what is know as the GOD particle so in a sense coming into line with creationism. The sum of all God particles this unknown field of energy=GODHEAD. So I guess my thoughts on the subject is that there is no separation between evolution and creationism, it is man that chooses to see them as separate theories of being. If man can believe that GOD created everything, why cant they believe that he created the BIG BANG