[Question] New ammendment to SANS 10142

[Jacques#1]

I've got a question (several actually), but please bear with me I'll stick to 2 only:

1. Each installation shall have a consumers earth terminal at or near the point where the supply cable enters the building, this is seperate to the main earthing terminal (in the DB board).....Does each installation now have to fit an earth bar at the junction box next to your house if there isn't any (usually located in the garage, or on the side of your house)?

2. Not really a question...just confused...Usually a COC (certificate of compliance) is issued when the home owner decides to sell (by law everyone should have a COC for their homes....but lets not get into that right now). If you install a DSTV aerial, it has to be bonded right? (SANS 10142).....but the homeowner will remove it when he moves, so the earth conductor you fit to the dish and you check for continuity is actually a waste of time. The new owner moves in and he fits his dish to the earth conductor, but continuity may be an issue now, so theoretically the house has to be rechecked......i.e. the certificate in this instance is not transferrable?

[Sparks]

Tuppence worth

1: An earth terminal does not have to be an earth bar. A brass screw to connect the supplied earth to the installation will suffice.

2: An eatrh terminal is required for the antenna, the installer must have it available to use. If the antenna is there it must be connected. Should the seller remove the antenna the terminal will be available for the new antenna.

The COC is valid until the installation is altered up to two years.

[murdock]

how many "dstv aerial installers" know the sans regulations?

anyone every found and aerial earthed when carrying out an inspection report?

How many "electricians" know that you can and in fact should connect the earth to the main earth bar in the DB?

The best thing would be to have an earth point at the aerial to connect.

aerial installers who i have confronted with regards to this issue insist that they are not qualified electrician and therefore it is not their job to earth the aerial...so its back to the consumer...he should be then responsible for the earthing of his/her aerial.

[Sparks]

Another tuppence

Quite correct, the installer is not qualified to install as he is not installing as per SANS requirements for the antenae. The same thing with plumbers that work on geysers. They do the electrics themselves or get cheapies to do it and invariably there is no earthing/bonding. Likewise with the guys replacing metallic roofs, the earth is just left off. It is ridiculous that the public are not informed by the ECA or ECB about the basic lifesaving requirements of the regulations. There is an "Arrive Alive" campaign for road use but how about "Staying Alive" in your own house. People should be made aware that if they do not insist on COC's for everything they put their lives at risk. The plumbing industry also have a COC now but they are in the same boat as us. Only the legit guys are bound by it.

[daveob]

People should be made aware that if they do not insist on COC's for everything they put their lives at risk.

Are you saying that if I have the local sparky come and add a surface mounted plug point in the outdoor entertainment area, or change a single to double plug point, or add a geyser time, that I need a new COC ?

This would add + 200% to the cost of the work I just had done !!

Alternatively, should I only be using someone that can issue their own COC ?

And is any COC applicable for the entire property, or would they issue an updated / amended COC to cover only the work they just completed ?

[Dave A]

Are you saying that if I have the local sparky come and add a surface mounted plug point in the outdoor entertainment area, or change a single to double plug point, or add a geyser time, that I need a new COC ?

Yes, a COC has to be issued on the additions and changes.

Alternatively, should I only be using someone that can issue their own COC ?

If the person isn't working under the general supervision of an accredited person, he shouldn't be working on your electrical installation in the first place. If he's working under supervision, there shouldn't be a problem with you being given the appropriate COC as part of the deal.

[murdock]

if you replace a plug socket no coc is required...if you fit an additional plug a coc is required.

[Dave A]

What about changing a single plug outlet to a double, Murdock? I wasn't sure on that one.

[murdock]

it doesnt change the coc in any way...ie you dont record single or double sockets merely the quantity.

same with a db only if you add or reduce the number of circuit breaker or change the ka ratings etc of the DB would you need to issue a coc...but if you take out an old one and replace with exactly the same size...ka ratings etc there is no need to re-issue a coc.

[murdock]

what i assume the idea of the coc is to make sure...

that the cabling is...correctly sized for the application...otherwise it will overheat and catch on fire...

the circuit breaker current selection is correct to prevent the wiring from carrying more load than it can handle...or short out if there is a short circuit.

ka ratings correct...if not there are serious implications...ie if there is a 2.5 ka breaker in place of lets say a 10 ka breaker...what happens is if there is a short ciriuit...the current which will flow in the circuit will arc the 2.5 ka breaker closed...ie you will not be able to switch it off...it will then continue to the next db or sub substation and hopefuly the breakers are correctly selected...other wise it will also arc them closed...until it gets to a point where the breaker trips or opens the circuit...this is one thing i have noticed lots of electricians over look or dont know how to calculate...especially when working above 10 ka...hence the need for type testing panels.

the equipment is sans approved which is installed.

The switches and isolators operate correctly.

and the installed in an enviroment which it is designed...this is another big problem in the industry.

tooo many unskilled people working on electricity which is extremely dangerous considering its in your house... at work... at the shopping centre and even in the streets where the kids play...how ften do you see light covers missing on the street light poles.

if the lights are fed from a PEC control box it is only alive when the day/night switch activates but if it has a day/night switch on the light it means the power is on all the time...so next tme you see a cover missing on the street light pole stay away from it and make sure the kids dont go near it.

beware electricity is dangerous...if you dont believe me watch this video...not suitable for sensitive viewers...an arc flash generates more than 50 000 degrees of temperature...which peels the skin off your body.

warning do not watch these videos if you are a sensitive veiwer

YouTube- 2:00 arc flash interior substation racking breaker refineria Barranca Ecopetrol

or this one

YouTube- Donnie's Accident

this will really make you think if you are an electrician or have family who work as electricians.

[Jacques#1]

Are you saying that if I have the local sparky come and add a surface mounted plug point in the outdoor entertainment area, or change a single to double plug point, or add a geyser time, that I need a new COC ?

This would add + 200% to the cost of the work I just had done !!

Alternatively, should I only be using someone that can issue their own COC ?

And is any COC applicable for the entire property, or would they issue an updated / amended COC to cover only the work they just completed ?

A COC can be written for the alteration only, saving you time, saving you money, putting your life first!! Seriously, the Electrician will check the DB, test the alteration he made. Some tests involve testing the whole system, but they are quick. It might come at a small increase in price, but well worth it, and if there is something seriously wrong like an elevated voltage to earth, he may save you and your families lives.

[Jacques#1]

Thank you for answering my questions guys. A new questions, same topic (amendments to SANS).

Joints and terminations have been amended a few times over the last few years. I still do mine in junction boxes.....but if you check the book it says something like this: out of arms reach & live parts cannot be touched with the std test finger/not exposed. Nothing about boxes. I've come across a house where they wired before the ceiling was put in, junction box facing down- 4 pieces of conduit coming out in their relative directions.....PS-they should make this method illegal - or the boxes facing down anyway!!!!! So before they finished wiring the ceilings went up, and guess what, they couldn't get into the boxes (not without effort anyway). They did the connections outside the box with strip connectors taped up. Strictly speaking, according to the book they aren't wrong, are they? Its out of arms reach from the floor, and you cannot touch any exposed live part???

Further to this...Talking to an inspector one day I asked him why am I seeing more and more junction boxes without lids.....he said the ceiling is not a livable area and the "normal" person wouldn't be up there fiddling with wires....but what about rats???

[murdock]

the rats...plumbers...builders....electricians...pest control staff...etc etc...

i dont see how that rule is legal because it must be vermin proof.

[daveob]

the rats...plumbers...builders....electricians...pest control staff...etc etc...

i dont see how that rule is legal because it must be vermin proof.

you didn't specify which of the above are the vermin ?

[murdock]

no comment