Geyser earthing and bonding

[Alfred M]

If a 2.5 mm min. wire size is required for earthing and bonding of a geyser, how is it possible that inspectors are passing inspection reports and issuing COC's for properties which are fed with a 2.5 mm twin+E, the earth wire in the twin is certainly not 2.5mm and the "certified twin+E" being sold on social media platforms for a mere R550, I dont believe the red and black is 2.5 mm copper.

Old installations will still pass and in some cases where 2.5 mm house wire was used, in most cases a 2.5 mm surfix or twin is used.

I fully agree with you Isetech the crap wire twin+E sold are not copper most probably more tin than copper as the live , neutral and earth conductors are extremely soft even the outer insulation is very soft. I agree geysers should have 2.5mm earth conductor back to main db earth bar and bonding of hot and cold water pipes needs to be done at geyser don't rely on readings best practice bond hot and cold water pipes at geyser with bamba strap and use Norsk or Surfix with seperate 2.5 mm back to db earth bar.

[Isetech]

I wish I had kept all my old green books, I burnt all of them older than 2008. There use to be a reg that stated that the bonding must be done within 300 mm of the geyser, it must have changed a long time ago

Today has been quite a wake up call, I went to the SPCA with my daughter and point out and old "HIFI cabinet", she asked me what is a HIFI, then 2 tables down she picked up a rotary dial telephone and asked me what it it was. We ended up spending a couple hours going through old cameras and told her stories about how you could watch the photos being developed in the shop and how every now and again someone had taken a few dirty pics and it would be visible for everyone to see.

What is even more sad is when you look around and see all the old people "60 plus" and realise you look just like them, and you are regarded as a dirty old man when you look at pretty women

[Dylboy]

Ahahaha fortunately I'm of the era when one was swopped for the other. i.e I know photos being developed and then the digital age.

I now have a 10month old and shudder to think what she will have when she is 20 plus...

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[Dylboy]

AlfredM, I agree with you too but I do want to discuss why you say don't take the readings ? Doing the tests and getting a satisfactory result is proof.
It is not always possible to see the bonding on old installations.

If I did not see any bondings and my readings where wrong then no CoC

If my visual didn't satisfy me of bonding cables but readings passed then it's a pass from me.

I'm curious why a satisfactory test deems it's unsatisfactory for you due to visuals ?

Look I would love dedicated bonding wires but our country ain't about that life...





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[Alfred M]

Ok my point is this is your test procedure.
A continuity test verifies that current will flow in an electrical circuit (i.e. that the circuit is continuous). The test is performed by placing a small voltage between 2 or more endpoints of the circuit. The flow of current can be verified qualitatively, by observing a light or buzzer in series with the circuit actuates or quantitatively, using a multimeter to measure the resistance between the endpoint.

In continuity testing the resistance between two points is measured. Low resistance means that the circuit is closed and there is electrical continuity. High resistance means that the circuit is open and continuity is lacking. Continuity testing can also help determine if two points are connected that should not be. What happens if your test instrument is faulty or there is human error in measurement how are you going to explain in court if error in measurement was the reason for not following best practice

[Alfred M]

In the mining industry we used a Fault Equipment Protector (GFEP), designed to protect equipment against damaging line-to-ground currents by disconnecting all ungrounded conductors of the faulted circuit. A ground fault is caused by an insulation loss between a live conductor and an exposed conductive part that creates a flow of current to the ground. Most short circuits initially manifest as ground faults, which, if undetected, can cause serious and costly damage to electrical systems and human life especially in humid conditions

[Dylboy]

I use continuity and the 0.2ohms as that's what is says in the book.

It is inspect before test so both is conducted.

Same can be said for any test done on a machine for human error as well.

Also a binding conductor can still be added if you not satisfied.

Also 2.5mm has. A max distance so doing the test helps show if the bonding conductor is adequate

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[Dylboy]

The mining thing is very cool and interesting. Will read up on that.

Im on a small mission with this whole inverters and Earth Neutral bond and with disconnecting earth etc. Reading stuff from UK with the EV vehicle stuff and they actually disconnect the earth or CpC as they say.

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[Isetech]

I carried out a test report which identified a lot of code violations, too many to list in the time frame allocated for the test. So an estimate was submitted and we are busy doing the repairs. I cannot understand how companies can do test reports and issue COC's unless the building is unoccupied and every single part of the installations is accessible.

While carrying out COC audits, I have noticed "no access" is a common excuse.

The geyser wiring and bonding was one of the violations on this site, which looks like it was replaced recently.

You can see before the geyser was replaced there was an earth wire from the meter box to the mains water copper pipe, that has been cut, and the wire is just hanging loose. A piece of the copper pipe has been cut and replaced with polycop. Now you have to ask yourself, the mains water is galvanised steel, which connected to a copper pipe , which is connected to polycop which is then at some point connected to the old copper pipe again, then connected to the geyser and out the other side of the geyser still using copper, do you bond the piece of copper pipe?

To add to the mix, an additional geyser has been installed and piped using Pex, which is connected to a piece of copper pipe on the side of the building.

I noticed the bonding strap is still hanging on the pipe in 2 locations but not secured.

The geyser has a piece of surfix hanging from the geyser isolator to the geyser (3 m long), no gland on the terminal cover, which is a common site after the insurance approved plumber has replaced the geyser.

I have a huge earthing issue on this site, old steel conduit is used for earth continuity. So the simple solution is going to extend the original earth wire hanging loose to the closest electrical point in the building which will be the old stove isolator point and secure it to the metal box or remove the locknut and fit an earth tag and hope the pipe between the stove and the DB is not cut and removed.

At the DB I will fit an earth bar and run a 4 mm earth wire to the geyser, from the geyser to the outbuilding and any other points I feel could improve the general earthing of the building. I might even knock in a earth rod or 2 at the pool DB and maybe at the outbuilding DB. All the old fuse boxes will be replaced with circuit breakers and earth leakage in each DB.

2 expensive mistakes I have learnt this year,

1/ Never offer to fix an alarm system wiring, just replace all the wiring and dont be a putts and leave the old wiring in place.

2/ When you are called out to do an inspection report on a house with fuse boxes, the amount of faults you are going to find will cost more to repair than rewire.

[GCE]

Ok my point is this is your test procedure.
A continuity test verifies that current will flow in an electrical circuit (i.e. that the circuit is continuous). The test is performed by placing a small voltage between 2 or more endpoints of the circuit. The flow of current can be verified qualitatively, by observing a light or buzzer in series with the circuit actuates or quantitatively, using a multimeter to measure the resistance between the endpoint.

In continuity testing the resistance between two points is measured. Low resistance means that the circuit is closed and there is electrical continuity. High resistance means that the circuit is open and continuity is lacking. Continuity testing can also help determine if two points are connected that should not be. What happens if your test instrument is faulty or there is human error in measurement how are you going to explain in court if error in measurement was the reason for not following best practice

Have you actually read what you copied and pasted here ??
Your supposed statement is a direct copy from the article - https://carelabz.com/learn-continuity-testing-what-how/


It makes no sense in the context of the thread and discussion happening .

you continually copy and paste statements from articles that make no sense in the context of discussions taking place - I have no idea in what you are attempting to achieve

[GCE]

The mining thing is very cool and interesting. Will read up on that.

Im on a small mission with this whole inverters and Earth Neutral bond and with disconnecting earth etc. Reading stuff from UK with the EV vehicle stuff and they actually disconnect the earth or CpC as they say.

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AlfredM copied the statement directly from ABB articles - Have pasted the article below that is word for word to his statement - May be best to start at that article

https://www.manufacturing.net/home/press-release/13217925/ground-fault-equipment-protector