SANS 10142-1:2017 (Ed. 2.00)

[GCE]

By registering you become an Electrical contractor

By not registering , you are a handyman who performs illegal electrical work and runs the risk of prosecution under the OHSA
By not registering your insurance company will not pay out any claims under contractors all risk and possible public liability depending on the nature of the claim.
By not registering your client could refuse payment and a court of law could find that you fraudulent presented yourself as an Electrical contractor and therefore uphold the non payment until it is rectified or charge you criminally for fraud.

Besides being the legal thing to do and register as an Electrical contractor - is it really worth not registering for R120.00 per year vs the risks you will place yourself in.

[GCE]

Greetings All

I recall reading a thread regarding the change of installing socket outlets awhile ago that caused some confusion, this afternoon I recieved an article expling this in detail.

http://crown.co.za/latest-news/spark...socket-outlets

I received a ECB version of the regulation this morning that differs from the ECA version with regards to existing installation.

Leaves a person wondering who is right and who is wrong - Amazing how the regulations can be interpreted so differently

[Dave A]

Tony vs Cecil... Expect sparks!!

Tony seems to rely on this statement in SANS 10142-1 for his interpretation when it comes to extensions and additions to existing installations:

If an existing installation is extended or altered, such extension or alteration shall comply with the provisions of this part of SANS 10142-1 that were applicable at the time of the erection of the extension or alteration.

The key may be the significance of "this part".

I don't have my copy available right now, but in which part is the statement made and applicable to?

[GCE]

It comes from the Introduction page 3 - Always worries me that there are to many personality clashes involved in the interruption and it is the contractor that gets taken to task in the end.
We need to keep pushing that the ECA , ECB and AIA sit around the same table and publish notes that they all agree on. Will make all our lives easier .


In terms of the OHS Act, the provisions of this part of SANS 10142 apply only
from the point of control to the point of consumption.
Because this part of SANS 10142 is continually updated, problems can arise
on which version of the standard will be applicable when a contract is signed.
The date of approval of the latest revision or amendment of this part of
SANS 10142 will be the implementation date of the revision or the
amendment. The applicable version of this part of SANS 10142 is the one
with the latest implementation date before the contract date. So contracts
signed before the approval of an amendment have to be carried out in
accordance with the provisions of the unamended standard. If an existing
installation is extended or altered, such extension or alteration has to comply
with the provisions of this part of SANS 10142 that were applicable at the
time of the erection of the extension or alteration.
The edition of the standard that was applicable at the date of erection of an
electrical installation is to be considered the edition defining the requirements
applicable to that particular electrical installation.
3

[Dave A]

The challenge with Cecil is he sits on the SANS Committee; as a result he has in his head what was intended (or at least what he intended). I've found the odd occasion where the words on the page actually state something different to what he intended them to say, and he does not easily concede that it "came out wrong" (or he was out of step with the rest of the committee??).

Tony misquoted the section. As you correctly quote, the section refers to "this part of SANS 10124" (not this part of SANS 10142-1) - so "this part" is surely -1.

Based on that though, I'm with Tony. After the latitude given on the time of signing of the contract has been taken into account, the language plainly states that extensions and alterations to existing installations done today need to apply the current edition of SANS 10142-1.

[ians]

Being 2018 and all the modern tech, what is the chance that you can renew and pay online?

Ooops ...just found all the documents required. Best i be renewing this ASAP, someone might actually read one and find people are issuing COC's

Wow, just shows how few people actually take note of COC documents or information written on them.

[Dave A]

Being 2018 and all the modern tech, what is the chance that you can renew and pay online?

Now there's a dream worth pursuing!!

[ians]

Imagine that another another family leaving for a safer place to live. Bonus for me, i get to inherit the latest Sans edition 2 with a pile of seminar documentation. I might get around to reading the drivel printed, one day when i retire.

Working on site at the moment, wonder why people waste all this time and money on rules and regulations, safety induction, medical checks ...blah blah blah. Then you open the roof tile and look across the ceiling and wonder why the safety of all the employees working in the office is not taken into consideration.

Finding shyte like, white wires being used as live...neutral and in some cases earth. No earthing on the plugs sockets, no earth leakage on any white sockets, the list is too long.

I can tell you why, because it is paper work to cover the companies a$$ in case of an accident. Companies can be lucky i am not a government safety consultant with authority to shut down buildings due to negligence. I do have the authority as a master electrician, however i have bills to pay like everyone else. It was bad enough having inspectors come to site to collect their case of the finest whiskey back in the day, but now there is absolutely no control.


My aircon mate arrived yesterday, telling me a how he was electrocuted and burnt on a site due to incorrect labeling and unsafe working conditions. A couple contractors die, what is the big deal?

[SeanM]

Afternoon All

I have recently been requested to complete the installation of electronic billboards can I please have some advise?

Do these fall under fixed appliances or lights?

[SeanM]

Afternoon all

When it comes to stove connections the regulations refer to stove being fixed appliances which is normal.

The issue I have is that further on in the regulations it stipulates that freestanding stoves, a stove coupler must be used and if not must be on an earth leakage.

What about non freestanding stoves?

I place all stoves on an earth leakage and was questioned and asked to show were in the regulations non freestanding stoves must be on an earth leakage and I can't find it.

[GCE]

Hi

I think the reason they state that a stove on a stove coupler need not be protected by ELU is to cut out any confusion with regards to socket outlets that need to be on ELU.They are ensuring that everybody understands that a stove coupler definitely does not need ELU
If you look at 6.16.3 it defines a built in unit as a cooking appliance under fixed appliances.
Under 6.16.3.2.3 it states that it only requires ELU if the cooking appliance also feeds a standard socket outlet.( this was for the old isolator that used to come with a socket outlet for the extract fan) I think from 6.16.3.2.3 it is clear as mud that you don't need ELU protection on a cooking circuit under normal conditions

6.7.5.5 The following do not need earth leakage protection:
a) socket-outlets connected to a safety supply, but see 7.8.3.3 and 7.12;
b) a socket-outlet that complies with SANS 164-4 and that is intended only
for the connection of an appliance for critical application (such as
emergency lighting, a deep-freeze, a burglar alarm, data processing
equipment, or life-supporting equipment);
c) circuits that supply fixed socket-outlets positioned out of normal reach,
rated at less than 16 A and intended for the connection of luminaires (see
6.14.1.4); and
d) a stove coupler that complies with SANS 60309-1 and of dimensions as
given in SANS 337 (see 6.15.1.1.5).

6.15.1.1.5 A stove coupler shall comply with the requirements of
SANS 60309-1 and shall be of dimensions as given in SANS 337.
NOTE 1 Earth leakage protection is not required for the stove circuit when a stove
coupler is used.
NOTE 2 For a three-phase coupler, the earth connection needs special consideration.

6.16 Fixed appliances
6.16.1 General
NOTE The general requirements in 6.16.1.1 to 6.16.1.12 apply, except where
otherwise required for specific cases.
6.16.1.1 Fixed appliances do not form part of the electrical installation other
than their positioning in relation to the supply and the wiring carried out
between different parts of the appliances

6.16.3 Cooking appliances
NOTE Cooking appliances include built-in stoves, oven hobs, and the like (see also
6.16.1).

6.16.3.2.3 A cooking appliance circuit may also supply one socket-outlet if
the rating of the socket-outlet does not exceed 16 A and if the following are
all contained in one control unit (see also 6.15.4.1):
a) the socket-outlet;
b) an earth leakage protection device including overcurrent protection for
protecting the socket-outlet; and
c) the switch-disconnector required for the cooking appliance (see 6.16.1).
NOTE The socket-outlet has to be protected against earth leakage so, unless the
protection device (see (b) above) is in the control unit, the entire cooking appliance
circuit has to be protected against earth leakage.

[SeanM]

Hi

Thank you GCE.

[ians]

Now there's a dream worth pursuing!!

The question i keep asking myself...why is it a dream...are we such a bunch of spineless sheep who just follow as we are told?

Do the electrical contractors not pay the ECA to look out for them...make things happen to improve the electrical industry?

Why has the electrical industry not got a body or organisation to protect us as contractors...

make sure we get paid...

make sure the DOL follow up on complaints...

make sure a systems are put in place to get registration done more efficiently....up to date...tracking down pirate contractors.

make sure that there are suitably qualified people make the rules and changing the regulations as the industry evolves...not a bunch yahooos who sit in an office...they should try include people who are out there hands on doing the projects.

making sure that electrical contractors who advertise that they are registered contractors are not dropping off semi skilled labour to perform tasks above their grade.

doing random checks on issued COC's ...the joke of the industry at the moment...the majority of people collecting COC's which are suppose to be certified legal documents as everyone makes them out of be...dont even have a clue what the recording are or if they even correct...i can tell you now i have issued COC as a test to see if anyone actually reads them...and i can tell you now...if you ever come across them you will know they are mine because...i use the name jack sparrow for the test certificates...which have absolute bullshyte written on them...with numbers like 10810.

i have just been advised that the project i am busy with has a COC for the work completed...to give you one example of how messed up it is...the lights circuit is connected to the C1 orange 20 amp breaker which is the dedicated aircon circuit feeding 2 seperate aircon isolators in 2 completely different locations...not one of the white standard plugs are on earth leakage...in fact i am yet to find a socket outlet which actually trip the earth leakage.