Basic Compliance requirements

[GCE]

A socket circuit is allowed to feed fixed appliances as per reg6.15.4.2
A pool pump falls under reg 6.16 fixed appliances
The Circuit breaker should have been labeled as mixed loads

With regards to the wire size - If the upstream breaker , the one in the DB , is 20 Amp then 2,5sqmm wire is fine .



6.15.4 Mixed loading of circuits
6.15.4.1 Except as allowed in 6.15.4.2, 6.15.4.3 and 6.16.3.2.3, there shall
be no mixed loading of circuits.
6.15.4.2 Except as required in 6.16, a non-dedicated single-phase circuit that
has overcurrent protection rated at not more than 20 A may supply a mixed
load of a combination of any socket-outlets rated at not more than 16 A,
luminaires and fixed appliances.
NOTE 1 The number of points need not be limited, but the diversity of loads should be
considered.
NOTE 2 Mixed circuits should be carefully considered since this may result in nuisance
tripping.
6.15.4.3 Socket-outlets rated at 16 A or more that are connected to circuits
with mixed loading shall comply with the earth leakage requirements of 6.7.5.
NOTE 1 See 7.1 for the conditions under which a socket-outlet may be installed in a
bathroom.
NOTE 2 See 6.16.1.6 for the conditions under which a socket-outlet may be used for
the connection of fixed appliances.

6.16.5 Motors
NOTE Motors include the motors in automatic doors and gates, garbage disposal
units, pumps (pool, fountain, spa, etc.), and the like (see also 6.16.1).

[Firepool]

A socket circuit is allowed to feed fixed appliances as per reg6.15.4.2
A pool pump falls under reg 6.16 fixed appliances
The Circuit breaker should have been labeled as mixed loads

With regards to the wire size - If the upstream breaker , the one in the DB , is 20 Amp then 2,5sqmm wire is fine .



6.15.4 Mixed loading of circuits
6.15.4.1 Except as allowed in 6.15.4.2, 6.15.4.3 and 6.16.3.2.3, there shall
be no mixed loading of circuits.
6.15.4.2 Except as required in 6.16, a non-dedicated single-phase circuit that
has overcurrent protection rated at not more than 20 A may supply a mixed
load of a combination of any socket-outlets rated at not more than 16 A,
luminaires and fixed appliances.
NOTE 1 The number of points need not be limited, but the diversity of loads should be
considered.
NOTE 2 Mixed circuits should be carefully considered since this may result in nuisance
tripping.
6.15.4.3 Socket-outlets rated at 16 A or more that are connected to circuits
with mixed loading shall comply with the earth leakage requirements of 6.7.5.
NOTE 1 See 7.1 for the conditions under which a socket-outlet may be installed in a
bathroom.
NOTE 2 See 6.16.1.6 for the conditions under which a socket-outlet may be used for
the connection of fixed appliances.

6.16.5 Motors
NOTE Motors include the motors in automatic doors and gates, garbage disposal
units, pumps (pool, fountain, spa, etc.), and the like (see also 6.16.1).

Agree with that.The circuit should just be labelled mixed circuit .

[ians]

This could be a little tricky ... I get the feeling this isnt a mixed circuit but rather a breaker labelled "pool DB" with 2 wires .. one feeding the pool DB and the other the plugs ... maybe the DB was full.

the question would be ... can you have a pool DB as part of a mixed circuit ... I can understand a "motor/pump" being part of a mixed circuit ... but a sub DB with a pump as part of a plug circuit in a sub DB?

lets see some pictures of the DB and the bottom of the circuit breaker.

[ians]

Had another look at the part of the COC ... it looks like the only sub DB is in the garage.

Could the pool be one of those little pools with the built in pump and stuff at the weir ... plugged into a weatherproof plug ... back to back with a plug in one of the room.

Its like playing a guessing game

[GCE]

This could be a little tricky ... I get the feeling this isnt a mixed circuit but rather a breaker labelled "pool DB" with 2 wires .. one feeding the pool DB and the other the plugs ... maybe the DB was full.

the question would be ... can you have a pool DB as part of a mixed circuit ... I can understand a "motor/pump" being part of a mixed circuit ... but a sub DB with a pump as part of a plug circuit in a sub DB?

lets see some pictures of the DB and the bottom of the circuit breaker.

At the end of the day it is a fixed appliance and 6.16.5 makes actually mention of pool

[ians]

Let get this right ... if I have agate motor and a pool motor fed from the pool DB it marked as a mixed circuit ... in fact I have a very similar situation.

I have a cable from the main DB to a sub DB on the verandah ... from the sub DB I have a bunch of garden lights ... a pool DB and a gate motor on the same cable ... I have fitted a weather proof isolator at the gate for the gate lights and motor ... a DB at the pool with a light and pool pump ... and day/night switch in the garden feeding lights ... a mixed circuit label on the sub DB on the verandah all I need ?

[Sparks]

The weird and wonderful world SANS in the new SA, unbelieveably even more so than in the old SA. A sub-DB is not a fixed appliance. It is a remote sub-section of the main DB. It therefore stands to reason that each sub-DB must have a dedicated circuit capable of withstanding the total load of said sub-DB. Obviously it must have the correct designation both at the main DB and also at it's location. Fixed appliances on a "mixed" circuit must have isolating devices as must all other fixed appliances, either an isolator or be connected by means of a socket outlet capable carrying the load. A lighting circuit labelled as such may have unswitched lights connected through unswitched socket outlets.

[Sparks]

If the pool is connected to a plug circuit through an isolator only, yes, that would be a mixed circuit. Should there however be a "pool DB", not according to the COC, there must be a dedicated supply to that sub-DB. Any plugs/lights fed from that sub-DB must also be labelled as such to ensure compliance and safety when working on the installation. Maximum current capacities of thin cables must be adhered to as well.

[ians]

I installed a 16 amp mcb ... the only issue might be the socket on the pool DB which is wired with 2.5 mm wire ... i am sure there is a reg which stats min. 2.5 mm for socket outlets.

Which I do beleive makes many many old pool DB supplies illegal ... I have seen many old pool DB's wired with 1.5 mm x 2 core armoured cable ... this house I refer to in this post is why we have this issue ... the feed cable to the pool DB is only 1.5 mm.

The way I understand a mixed circuit ... a garage for example which has plugs and lights on the same circuit both wired with 2.5 mm wire on a single 20 amp circuit breaker would be labelled as a mixed circuit.

[Derlyn]

I know of a whole suburb in East London where ALL the houses are wired only with 1,5mm T&E.
Only the stove circuit is 4mm.

Geysers the lot on 1,5mm.

Breakers are 10A lights, 15A plugs and geyser, 30A stove.

I did not issue a coc for the following reason.
The wire going to plugs was in conduit inside the wall.
Now according to Table 6.2(a) 1,5mm has a current carrying capacity of less than 15A if in conduit in the wall.
Had it been surface mounted , no problem.

Anyway, someone else provided a coc as is.

16A socket outlets must be wired with conductors that are rated at not less than 16A. 6.15.3.b.
1,5mm will be acceptible if surface mounted, but in conduit in the wall the rating drops to below 16A so unacceptable.

My 2cents worth.

Derek

[ians]

The 1.5 mm cable is buried directly in the ground ... and not in conduit ... so it would be ok ?

[Derlyn]

The 1.5 mm cable is buried directly in the ground ... and not in conduit ... so it would be ok ?

Use table 6.11

Gets complicated with soil temperature, thermal resistivity, length etc.

If it's not in conduit, it should be ok with a 15A breaker depending of course on the distance.

Derek