Basic Compliance requirements

[hartdev@hotmail.com]

I don't know but I doubt it. Surely if regulation information was freely available it would make our country safer?
Although, can you imagine clients inspecting your work while reading regulations with their uneducated misinterpretation thrown into the mix x)

[Gtfast]

Putting yourself on a public forum and opening up to all these issues would be suicide.

Getting the correct info about the regs is like trying to squeeze water out of a stone.

In the perfect world SABS would have a help line. They make the rules they should have people who are employed and trained to offer 24 hours (or at least during office hours) guidance to inspectors.

The fact that people have to resort to social media platforms like this to get advice is a clear indication of how f&*%&* the system is.

You can always follow the sparks edition of the regs, they dont even get it right.

Hi Ian's
Where can one find the Sparks edition of the regs.It is always good to get another perspective.
Thanks

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk

[Blurock]

I know you guys are talking about interpreting of the regs rather than the regs themselves so on a slight tangent, I've wondered for a while and never got around to asking, does anyone know if the SANS regulations are available to be accessed for free viewing at public libraries? This is the case in the UK, (in theory) you can view all the British Standard regs at any library. In practice they're only available at the main libraries but none the less they're available for public viewing, just wondered if it was the same here.....

The SANS and SABS regulations are not free and may not be copied or sold privately http://home.sanas.co.za/

[Stuart Louw]

Most of those posts are from 2016 and I am wondering if legislation is still the same. I am trying to find out if it is true that there needs to be an isolation switch within 1.5m of an electric gate motor? The other concern I have is similar to the questions in the thread. I recently took occupation of a house where the gate motor is fed by a 20m long surflex cable from a normal plug outlet socket in the garage. At the gate motor electricity is tapped off to a day night switch which gives power to two lights in the wall on either side of the gate.
The wiring at the gate motor and to the day night switch is disgusting and is not safe and the day night switch is cracked and no longer waterproof, prompting me to question the validity of the COC certificate.

I have been told conflicting stories and do not know what to believe. I still have these questions:
• Is an isolation switch required within 1.5m of an electric gate motor, irrespective of the source of power. (plugged in vs wired in)
• Do the lights and day night switch connected to the gate motor make it part of the installation and subject to COC compliance?

If the gate motor and lights are excluded because of it being classified as “plugged in”, do I have any recourse with the estate agent company for not disclosing this in the Offer to Purchase contract they drew up?

[GCE]

Hi

Bearing in mind that the COC for an installation is subject to the regulation at date of installation and I am referring to the new reg's - Sans 10142-1 Ed 2
The quick and easy answer is in 6.16.1.5 - A socket outlet shall only feed one fixed appliance - In your case the socket outlet is feeding 3 fixed appliances.- I would say that it would fail.

A couple of further reg's pasted below from previous queries

Gate motors fed from a socket outlet in the dwelling - over 3m away
Using Sans 10142-1 Ed 2
A gate motor is regarded as a motor - 6.16.5 - pg 187

6.16.5.1.4 pg 188 - each motor shall be supplied by a manually operated disconnector - shall be visible , readily accessible etc

6.16.1.5 pg 182 - Socket outlet shall only supply one fixed appliance .The use of flexible cords exceeding 3m is not recommended

6.16.1.10 - pg 183 - Wiring between different parts of a fixed appliance that are installed separately is part of the fixed installation even when supplied from a socket outlet

[ACEsterhuizen]

gce. how does these regs reconcile each other then?

6.9.3.3 The disconnecting device shall be a switch-disconnector that
disconnects all the phase conductors, however


a) a circuit-breaker may be used instead of a switch-disconnector if
overcurrent protection is also required (see also 6.8.1.), or

b) another device may be used instead of a switch-disconnector, where
specified in this part of SANS 10142 for a particular application.

NOTE 1 Any switch used to control an inductive load has to be suitable for that duty.

NOTE 2 Unless the device is a switch-disconnector, it shall be marked.

NOTE 3 The removal of a plug from a socket-outlet is a means of safe
disconnection.

Surely if the "motor" feeds from a "socket-outlet" it satisfy the "disconnector" requirements since it is allowed?

Also bear in mind that the 3m rule is only for "flexible cords", not surfix?

6.16.1.5 A socket-outlet shall supply only one fixed appliance. The use of
flexible cords of length exceeding 3 m is not recommended. The reason for
this recommendation is an endeavour to ensure operation of the overcurrent
protective device. (But see also 6.14.1.4 for luminaires.)

and,

6.16.1.2 The power supply to every fixed appliance, except luminaires, shall
be supplied through

a) a disconnecting device that disconnects both live conductors in a singlephase
supply and all phase conductors in a multiphase supply, or

b) a socket-outlet that is directly accessible at all times that any person is
exposed to such appliance while the supply is on. In the case of a
remotely installed appliance, the position of the disconnecting device
shall be indicated by means of a notice in close proximity to or on the
appliance.


and,


6.9.3 Disconnecting devices for equipment

6.9.3.1 An appliance or equipment that is not supplied from a socket-outlet,
including equipment automatically or remote controlled, shall be capable of
being disconnected from the supply by an easily accessible switchdisconnector.
The disconnector shall be mounted (if not specified elsewhere
in this part of SANS 10142, but excluding luminaire circuits) (see also
6.16.1.4)

a) within arm's reach from the terminals of the appliance, or

b) in a distribution board, if the device is capable of being locked in the open
position.

The disconnector can control more than one appliance if the functions of the
appliances are related. Where equipment which belongs to the supplier of
electricity (such as meters or remote controlled load switching) is installed,
the main switch may be regarded as the disconnecting device

[Sparks]

In a nutshell, a socket outlet within 1.5m of a gate motor is an acceptable isolating device. It does not need to be replaced with a double pole isolator. Being fed from a socket outlet in the garage your concerns are valid Stuart. Either a socket outlet or isolator must be provided at the gate. The pillar lights can be fed from the gate motor which has terminals provided therefore. The cracked D/N switch does not comply with IP rating anymore and must be replaced. Any open joints or non-UV protected cable would also be in contravention of the regulations. When an installation is inspected it is not always the latest regulations, as they stand now, which are applicable. In certain cases older regulations must be applied and sometimes only the minimum safety requirements.

[ACEsterhuizen]

Respectfully, i have to disagree, I will sign a coc if the gate motor plugs into ANY sans approved socket outlet and has not been wired with a flexible cord (3m rule for "flexible cords): {if it satisfies a) or b) or c) or d) below}

6.16.5.1.4 Each motor shall be supplied by a manually operated
disconnector or any other manually operated disconnecting arrangement
such as a withdrawable circuit-breaker, a removable link, a fuse or by the
removal of a plug from a socket-outlet, which provides at least the same
isolating distance, for the sake of safety, as a disconnector that is

a) readily accessible and mounted on or next to the motor, or
b) visible from the motor, or
c) lockable in the open position, or
d) housed in a lockable enclosure other than a distribution board.

[GCE]

Hi

I agree with the above statement - In the original query by Stuart the motor was plugged in 20m away - There was no mention of a socket next to the motor.

With regards to my statement that once the cord exceeds 3m - I need to find the reg , as it is mention but time is a bit short at the moment.

If we all said that we can unplug and then ignore the installation - then why don't we install a 63amp socket outlet at the incoming supply - When coming to do a coc we just unplug the house and give the COC for for the 63amp socket .

[ACEsterhuizen]

Hi

I agree with the above statement - In the original query by Stuart the motor was plugged in 20m away - There was no mention of a socket next to the motor.

With regards to my statement that once the cord exceeds 3m - I need to find the reg , as it is mention but time is a bit short at the moment.
If we all said that we can unplug and then ignore the installation - then why don't we install a 63amp socket outlet at the incoming supply - When coming to do a coc we just unplug the house and give the COC for for the 63amp socket .

"I gave the regs: 6.16.1.5 A socket-outlet shall supply only one fixed appliance. The use of
flexible cords of length exceeding 3 m is not recommended. The reason for
this recommendation is an endeavour to ensure operation of the overcurrent
protective device. (But see also 6.14.1.4 for luminaires.)"


"Point of supply and point of consumption" is what defines an "installation"

You can very well do that. But what you are suggesting still will not satisfy the second part of that same installation of sans 10142-2017 2nd edition for the "installation" itself as defined.

[Stuart Louw]

Deal All

Thank you for all your comments and advice. I used these facts to compel the Electrician who issued the COC to come back and install an isolator switch at the gate motor and replace the day/night switch. Costs were not for my account. Once again thanks to everyone for enabling me to fight with accurate facts.

[Sparks]

I am glad you got it sorted out. Unfortunately too many guys try short cuts.

While on the subject. I believe that with regards to excluding appliance from the COC, the point is not to rip the regs to shreds looking for an easy way out but rather to absolve the contractor from having to have an appliance technician along on the inspection to strip all faulty appliances to look for faults when in most cases new owners will change their light fittings, stoves, upgrade gravity fed geysers to high pressure and quite possibly knock a few walls down to do alterations. The appliance must at least be safe to use and safe to work on(an isloating device at hand).

[tharissamanikum]

Good day, I am currently in the process of buying a property.

The COC was done and certified as correct.

However, im of the understanding that a pool circuitry is supposed to be independent. The current connect is the pool circuitry is mixed with indoor plug points. Is this correct? the pool breaker is a 30A break with cabling of 1.5mm2 and 2.5mm2, is this correct?

the current COC states that the pool circuitry is independent but clearly is not when i drop the breaker.



Please kindly advise.

Thank you in advance.

[GCE]

Hi
When you talk of dropping the breaker - Is it the Earth Leakage unit ? This will drop numerous circuits
The 30 Amp feeding 2,5sqmm does not sound correct , but it will depend if it is an isolator or there is a smaller CB protecting the " breaker " upstream.
A bit difficult to comment fully based purely on the COC attached
Maybe a couple of photos will provide clarity

[tharissamanikum]

No, I meant when I drop the circuit breaker labelled pool on the DB box, the pool circuit is isolated as well as plug points in the house. This clearly indicates that the pool circuit comprises of plug points in the house. Is this in accordance to SANS regulations? What pictures would you require?