Haltrex Systems Scam?

[insulin]

First of legal battles are a big problem in South Africa

First of legal battles are a big problem in South Africa partly because our law and credit law can be abused to the point where you can legally destroy a person or company by submitting false information. This is a flaw that is bad news to honest companies and hardworking individuals. I recommend you register with a proper legal firm that knows industrial commercial and criminal law. Then find out from someone like good old Telkom for a recording system that record all incoming and outgoing calls that is if Telkom can help but I am sure that there are systems available to the commercial user. These two systems will provide you with some armour when the next scam comes into play. Also note that you have to say before anyone picks the phones up that: “All calls may be recorded for security purposes” This will easily disprove any so called agreement in a courtroom.

[jumbo]

Hi

Ok, so they got me as well, spoke to the so called General Manager this morning and she also said she will hand me over to their legal department if i dont pay....

[Dave A]

Hopefully the info in this thread will help you to tell them to get knotted in no uncertain terms.

[jumbo]

Hi

I send a request in to Carte Blanche, lets hope they r interested, I see the Faith is mentioned earlier in the tread as the sales lady, This morning she was sommer the General Manager
I also c they r listed on "hallopeter" and "sascam" websites...

But how is it possible that nothing happens with them ????

[jumbo]

Look like Haltrex Systems is really in business to scam u out of ur money..

found this in a Afrikaans local paper

Konsentraat voldoen nie aan vereistes

Mnr. Johan du Toit van Nelspruit was ontevrede met Haltrex Systems en het by ons kom aanklop.

“Ek het 25 liter Multi-tranz-konsentraat by Haltrex Systems telefonies bestel. Ek het aan die verkoopsdame gevra wat my posisie sou wees indien die produk nie aan my behoeftes voldoen soos beloof nie. Sy het my elke keer verseker dat ek beslis tevrede sal wees en nooit melding gemaak dat ek verantwoordelik gehou sal word vir betaling indien ek nié tevrede is nie.”

Du Toit vertel toe hy die produk ontvang en getoets het, was hy nie daarmee tevrede nie.

“Ek het hulle dieselfde dag per faks laat weet dat ek nie tevrede is met die produk nie en dat hulle dit moet kom haal.”

Du Toit sê Haltrex Systems beskuldig hom nou van diefstal en hulle bied hom 40% afslag as hy die bestelling onmiddellik ten volle betaal.

Ons het navraag gedoen en Haltrex Systems het nou die produk afgehaal en Du Toit hoef ook nie te betaal nie. Hy het ons bedank vir ons hulp.

[Dave A]

Enough bad publicity and Haltrex Systems will probably have to change their name.

The light at the end of the tunnel would seem to be the Consumer Protection Act, but that looks like it will only kick in in 18 months time. In the meantime it would seem that a blunt refusal to accept their intimidation is the easiest way to go.

[Tim P]

RETURN OF GOODS AND CLOSURE OF ACCOUNT

RETURN OF GOODS AND CLOSURE OF ACCOUNT

Dear Tony, (tony@haltrex.co.za)

Regarding our telephonic conversation. You asked us to return the ink to you which was not ordered by us, and to use the Woolworths voucher for R50.00 in order to cover the cost of postage.

We have looked in the box which was sent to us, there is no Woolworths voucher in the box, however we are sending the box containing the 4 ink packs back to your company by TRACK AND TRACE - SPEED SERVICES (COUNTER TO COUNTER) Tracking number - TA493244383ZA. - [You might want to look at the register of your Woolworths Vouchers and find out if and when - and more specifically where the voucher was cashed]. In many companies, the acceptance of any kind of voucher / gift above a minimal amount has to be declared to company management and entered into a register, because it opens the door to abuse.

You might also want to look at Google where, HALTREX SYSTEMS returns a large number of hits, many of them are complaints. Some of them described as HALTREX SCAM.

For example

http://www.theforumsa.co.za/forums/showthread.php?t=3948

It is my opinion that there are some unusual business practices being performed by HALTREX which are likely to affect the company negatively. I for one, don't find it usual to be sent products in an unsolicited way, and then be treated badly and strong arm tactics tried on me by sales people, and then once put through to you when I asked for the Managing director. You need to know that what I order and what my needs are and how I settle payment for stuff is entirely MY perogative, and I will not be strong armed or bullied by anyone.

Further to this I was offended by your remarks which I consider racist towards Italian people, when I was simply answering your question wher you stated that I obviously had a problem with understanding English, and would I like to continue in another language like Greek and mentioned some others. At some stage in the conversation you called me a pig and made disparaging remarks about my company just being a small company.

Just for fun, imagine if I was in the entertainment - stage - TV industry. Who do you imagine an entertainment industry person would stand around the braai with on weekends? The entertainment industry is big and wide and comprises of producers / directors / actors / reporters etc.

I don't want you to perceive any of this email as a direct threat to you or your company or any of its agents or employees, but suffice to say that I will be watching the future of your company with some amount of interest.

Yours faithfully

Tim Pullen

[daveob]

[Tim P]

REPORT IN THE NEWSPAPER LAST YEAR

This was sent to me, I don't know if this is related or not.

====


The Star, June 2008

Every week I receive emails which ram home the fact that the Consumer Protection Bill can't be passed into law quickly enough.

They provide perfect case studies for many of the bill's provisions.
Section 21, for example, concerns "unsolicited goods or services", and it states: "If a supplier delivers a larger quantity of goods than the consumer agreed to buy, the excess goods are unsolicited unless the consumer has rejected the entire delivery.

"If a person is in possession of any unsolicited goods, the person may (a) retain the goods or - (b) return the goods to the apparent supplier or deliverer at the risk and expense of the supplier or deliverer."

Unfortunately for a pastor in Port Elizabeth, who asked not to be named, South African consumers don't yet have the protection of this bill, although it has, at least, been tabled in Parliament.

The pastor told me how he'd been approached by a Sandton-based business called SA Image Solutions, inviting him to buy what was said to be superior quality, oil-based printer cartridges. He agreed to buy one set at a cost of R980, and duly received the cartridges in the mail.

But it didn't end there. "Later they sent us another set of cartridges, then phoned, telling us to pay for them.
"I had a long argument with a man calling himself Gavin, telling him that we did not order another set. He lied, saying we had ordered two sets initially and we needed to pay for both. I asked him to prove that we ordered two but he could not."

In the end, the pastor, not wishing to do anything which may reflect badly on his church's good reputation, gave in and paid for the second set.

But when a third set arrived, he dug his heels in.
"A man calling himself Craig phoned me from SA Image Solutions, telling me that we had originally ordered three sets and due to delays they could not send all of them at once, so they had staggered our order.

"I told him that I had never ordered three sets."
The pastor then received a fax from the company, assuring him that if he paid for the third set, they would stop sending the cartridges to him.

But he has no intention of giving in a second time.
The Hellopeter consumer complaints website has several complaints about the same company, most of the complainants alleging that they were repeatedly sent printer cartridges which they hadn't agreed to buy.

One wrote: "I agreed to buy two 'top quality' cartridges at a 25% discounted rate and I received a Woolworths voucher as a thank you.

"I received two cartridges, and then another three, and when I called to advise the company that I hadn't placed such an order, I was told that it was the remainder of my initial order, and that they could only supply a minimum of five."

Several complainants claim they were verbally abused, harassed and threatened with legal action and blacklisting if they refused to pay.

Of course, in the absence of any written proof that the consumers were failing to pay for goods which they had legitimately ordered, those threats, if they were indeed issued, were empty.

Contacted for comment, SA Image Solutions owner Krishna Naicker said because the company provided small businesses with the fantastic offer of a 25% discount on the cartridges, the deal only applied to a minimum order of three sets of cartridges.

"But because we cold call people all over the country, getting their names and numbers from phone directories, and we don't do credit checks, we can't send all three sets in one go.

"Instead we wait to see if they pay for the first set and then we send the second, and third," he said.
"We can't just supply all three sets at once because they might just run away and not pay."
The sales staff were instructed to tell prospective customers that the price was conditional upon a minimum order of three sets of cartridges, Naicker said.
"But sometimes the sales clerks are wrong," he conceded. As for the threatening "pay up" calls his employees are alleged to make, Naicker said his company was "aggressive" in compelling clients to pay, because "thousands" accepted the cartridges but refused to pay for them.

The call centre conversations are currently not taped, so there's no proof of who said what, sadly.
Moral of the story: It's always risky to buy products, unseen, over the phone from people or companies you have not done business with before.

And anytime a company or individual claims you owe them money, insist that they prove it – by means of a signed document or phone conversation recording – showing you agreed to buy the product or service, at that price.


==== Snip

[garthu]

Cannot wait for the reply...

Nice one Tim P...

[insulin]

I find it interesting how passive people are in taking legal action. This is entrapment, Fraud and blackmail if I am not mistaken. I think a lawyer could have remedied the situation in no time. Also I would love to know how they knew what printers where used in the office?

See the point I am trying to make is someone had to give some indication of what model and make printers where used to start with?

But again I do not have all the information so I would not know.

[Tim P]

Printer Model

I find it interesting how passive people are in taking legal action. This is entrapment, Fraud and blackmail if I am not mistaken. I think a lawyer could have remedied the situation in no time. Also I would love to know how they knew what printers where used in the office?

See the point I am trying to make is someone had to give some indication of what model and make printers where used to start with?

But again I do not have all the information so I would not know.

Hi Insulin,

The ink company finds a number in phonebook, makes a cold call explaining how one can SAVE money on printer ink. Then they go on to explain their ink is a different formulation, and lasts longer, a bit like DURACELL BATTERY advert.

The ink company asks what printers are used, and then offers a SAMPLE INK PACK, which sounds as if it is being sent as a "no charge" sample.

The ink SAMPLE is sent WITHOUT invoice, just a packing slip. The invoice arrives quite a while later. In my case the price was around R1200.00 , which I thought "Wow, I wasn't expecting a R1200.00 charge as this was a SAMPLE INK PACK."

The ink had already been opened by us, and we found the containers of the ink to be the same size as the agent's original ink. If the ink reservoir s are the same size, then how can HALTRANS ink last longer?

At this time I realised that I had been scammed, and decided to just leave it be as the scam amount was not worth following up and raising one's blood pressure.

THEN WITH NO COMMUNICATION FROM US, Haltrex sent a further package containing inks, 2 black cartriges and 2 colour cartriges with an invoiced price of close on R3500.00

My reaction. "Are these guys mad? R3500 for ink! I didn't order these inks, wasn't expecting them or needing them." I then sent the Haltrex company a fax saying that the shipment was not needed and that they needed to collect then and credit our account.

This fax, and further faxes were ignored for three months, when I received threating call from sales person and then later a so called manager, who sounded like he was of Indian descent, spoke to me like no one in business should ever be allowed to speak to a "client." He was making out that, I was totally in the wrong and that I had no way out of the contract.

I told this disgustingly rude man his fortune, including quoting from the TV show FATHER TED, when I told him to "Feck Off". I will not tolerate racist remarks, or will not buckle under strong arm tactics.

The following day the same so called "manager" phoned me back and condescendingly told me to send the ink back, and that a Woolworths voucher in the ink pack would cover the cost of the postage. There was no Woolworths voucher, and so I posted the parcel back by speed-services.

If people don't fight back and demand their rights, and stick to their guns, they are likely to be forced into situations that they are not happy with.

[Dave A]

Well done Tim for standing your ground

[insulin]

I also used to work for numerous computer companies in the past. Part of my function was to introduce services and get people interested in the product. I was really good at this and made a small fortune for the company I was working for.

Now this being stated I want to say that I never abused anyone into buying the products or services. However my experiences taught me the following:

(a) Never agree to anything and always ask for a sales representative.
(b) Always ask for turns and condition before any negotiations or meetings of any kind.

(c) When accepting a gift make sure that the terms and conditions of the gift is in writing and signed. “Demand it to be faxed to you.” Write the date and time with a blue pen on the back of the document.

(d) If you receive goods that was never ordered. Send it back and quarry the order by the company. Or better yet don’t take delivery and refuse to sign the delivery note and demand the goods to be taken back.

(e) If the company claimed you ordered stuff check out your phone records and see if any calls were made to the company in question. “It also gives you helpful information. And will help prove that you never ordered the stuff also you have dates and times to add to your argument. “Never reveal the date and time because they will pick up on it and claim that was the order date! Just say you have no records thus the order does not exist!”

(f) If possible record your phone conversations and always state “For the record” before you continue your conversations and questions.

(g) Never ever get angry “bite your lips if you have too!” You might say things that that person can use against you. “Especially true when the person is trying to provoke you... Question his or her motive!”

I am sure you can add more points but these are my rules and these rules keep me out of trouble.

[Dave A]

This one got me curious:

(c) When accepting a gift make sure that the terms and conditions of the gift is in writing and signed. “Demand it to be faxed to you.” Write the date and time with a blue pen on the back of the document.

Why a blue pen?