New Economic Rights Alliance???The Big Case?

[ScottyC]

Securitisation does not create new money. LOANS create new money. If you buy somethign from a shop with your credit card, the credit in your card is "brand new money" it is not a loan.

The rest of the points are moot because the retail aspect uses "money" as "currency" which is valid.

Just one thing - money does not exisit. Money as we know it is actually the promise to pay money. Please never forget this. If ABSA owes you R100, then that promise to pay you R100 is what we call R100.

This is why our case is so important. Even well educated people have no idea what is going on.

[ScottyC]

Oh yes they have made the money out of thin air! All "loans" are created out of thin air. There is no "loan" or "transfer" or "deposit" made in a "loan." this goes back to the goldsmiths and is well documented. PROMISES TO PAY ARE NOW THE ONLY MONEY THERE IS!

And no, they most certainly do NOT have to pay the depositors back. It is not the depositors money, it is the banks money (this was talked about in Legal Brief SA a fewmonths ago). There is no money and they don't have to pay it back. They only allude to the fact that they do, but if you believe them then you need a wake up call. I have just one word for you - CYPRUS.

(By the way we are NerERA not NERSA)

In fact there IS NOT MONEY, there are only PROMISES to pay money used as money. You cannot actually pay for anything in our banking system becauses there is no money to pay it with. You can only discharge the obligation of the debt by using a currency. Go through our Facebook page - there are links to some brilliant explanations of this.

[Citizen X]

Oh yes they have made the money out of thin air! All "loans" are created out of thin air. There is no "loan" or "transfer" or "deposit" made in a "loan." this goes back to the goldsmiths and is well documented. PROMISES TO PAY ARE NOW THE ONLY MONEY THERE IS!

And no, they most certainly do NOT have to pay the depositors back. It is not the depositors money, it is the banks money (this was talked about in Legal Brief SA a fewmonths ago). There is no money and they don't have to pay it back. They only allude to the fact that they do, but if you believe them then you need a wake up call. I have just one word for you - CYPRUS.

(By the way we are NerERA not NERSA)

In fact there IS NOT MONEY, there are only PROMISES to pay money used as money. You cannot actually pay for anything in our banking system becauses there is no money to pay it with. You can only discharge the obligation of the debt by using a currency. Go through our Facebook page - there are links to some brilliant explanations of this.

A very good morning to you Scotty,

Many thanks indeed for responding! It demonstrates openess and transparency from your side, I'll give you that! I don't see any bank coming onto TFSA to respond!
1. Scotty, can you post a link of the previous particulars of claim, the one, before the ruling on Friday and can you post a link on the new amended particulars of claim?

This will be highly appreciated!

Kind regards,
Vanash Naick

[Blurock]

Well, at least we agree on one point; a bank note is the same as a promissory note. That is how the world trades. The bank record all their transactions which is embodied in a balance sheet that is reported to the authorities and shareholders. What I do not understand is what do you suggest as an alternative? Are we now to hold gold bars under our beds?

[Dave A]

Oh dear!

Oh dear oh dear oh dear

...

I had actually drafted quite a long post. But on second thoughts, NerERA should go start a bank and test their theories in practice.



Cyprus indeed! Cyprus proves the holes in your theories...



Edit: Please ignore the attachment below - it's a residue of all the stuff I was going to talk about. It involved understanding financial statements, cashflow, audits, double entry accounting, the difference between a reserve bank and a retail bank etc. But seeing as that's all fiction to you, not much sense going into it.

[ScottyC]

The particulars of claim can be downloaded on www.thebigcase.co.za along with commentary.

The alternative is to give the alternatives a chance! in other words, we want alternative currencies to thrive instead of being supressed.

[Citizen X]

The particulars of claim can be downloaded on www.thebigcase.co.za along with commentary.

The alternative is to give the alternatives a chance! in other words, we want alternative currencies to thrive instead of being supressed.

A very good morning to you Scotty,

I reiterate that for openness and transparency I commend you!
The banks are conspicuous by their absence! Their silence is deafening! You see ‘sub judice,’ only applies to what has not yet been heard in open court. There’s no reason why they shouldn’t appear here and at least say something.
I'm very keen to see how this matter unravels. Either way, there will be a ruling and reasons for such ruling

[dcs]

Edit: Please ignore the attachment below - it's a residue of all the stuff I was going to talk about. It involved understanding financial statements, cashflow, audits, double entry accounting, the difference between a reserve bank and a retail bank etc. But seeing as that's all fiction to you, not much sense going into it.

Hi Dave,

I hope you didn't destroy the post! I would so like to get back to the place I was a few years ago: Everything was fine, The financial world made some sort of sense and I could trust big businesses like banks and insurance companies. My current state is that big business is driven by greed and they will stop at nothing to get the extra buck. They have vested interests and will keep those paramount even if it means destroying society as we know it. I think we are all kept in check by this and despite having freedom and the vote and so forth the reality is that we are living in a modern (financial) version of feudalism controlled by big business - not only banks.

Many years ago I studied a bit of economics and learnt about money supply, M3 and multiplier factors and so forth. Problem is, there were no credit cards or electronic transfers and derivatives or securitisation in those days. All these new types of transaction must have moved a significant amount of money supply control from the reserve bank to the commercial banks. The commercial banks have increased the debt burden of people hugely since the second half of the twentieth century by encouraging moves to credit cards and loans. These days it is the norm for a person to be paying a significant proportion of their earnings in interest, way more than in the sixties to eighties.

I really would like to be corrected, and if my mythical banking scenario can be broken it would go a long way toward restoring my trust.

[Frankincense]

Authority & Independance of Crown Court Dissolved - before they dissolve you!

Hi,

I do not accept the authority of all Temple Bar Courts nor will I consent to them to operate in a Trustee capacity for any natural free person...I care less for thier imminent negative ruling! (As if they will find in the poor's favour and scrap mutli-tiered leveraging without the reserves in place and selling of debt to others - this has ramifications for the entire GLOBAL financial system sanctioned by Temple Crown Authority)

Its not the dirty banking that needs to be changed, its those in authority sponsoring its existence!

The outcome of this can go two ways:

(1) Too much publicity and Banks/SARB/Crown Bar cuts deal with Tellinger to have some cosmetic changes introduced and media marketed with Plaintiff telling of a compromise type deal and who knows, maybe offer to pay him off to shut up - case dismissed (Possible but will allow Banker exposure in entering pleas)...reminiscent of Competition Commision into banks outcome of Crown....not likely!

(2) Tellinger is told to F&* off - gutted fish on skillet! (Most obvious ruling)

I believe with the media owned by big business, they will keep it quiet like it is being suppressed as we speak. We dont see any hype on mainstream media. Plaintiff will be dismissed with costs

...surley if you see this coming you would change your approach to suit a known outcome? Even so....

I remain disappointed that people approach a corrupt judiciary expecting different outcomes. Not gonna happen!

When you know the wind will blow against you, change the sail!

If Plaintiff makes special appearance as the natural person under common law and we get sufficient real natural persons to sit in the public gallery and establish common law jurisdiction, we could achieve more by exposing the courts unwillingness to allow Common Law rule and jusridiction establishement than sitting back and loosing yet another Contract Law debate leaving the Wolves in charge still. This means Plaintiff can arrest the SC (Bench) under common law for gutting of fish on a skillet instead of true justice and fair banking, then We, the people adjourn court with our findings.

This would enable RSA to become independant from Crown Judicial Rule... it would literally be toppling The Crown in SA. It would also have major impacts on our country given the interests involved.

I have a hope that one day people will no longer be considered "Legal Persons" but may once again present themselves as "Natural persons" alive blessed by thier Creator, and appoint the Judge Trustee and as Beneficiary of the trust, request the collapse the "Dead Mans trust: Cest tui que" for we are here and alive!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQ0Y_jjlCTQ

Time will tell.

Tetragrammaton Rocks!

[Blurock]

I am still waiting on an answer to my question; What do you suggest as an alternative to the existing banking system?

[Dave A]

Hi Dave,

I hope you didn't destroy the post!

I'm afraid I did - and I'll not be trying to rebuild that line of thought either, in no small part because it is to a large extent irrelevant to resolving the actual challenges this thread poses.

I would so like to get back to the place I was a few years ago: Everything was fine, The financial world made some sort of sense and I could trust big businesses like banks and insurance companies. My current state is that big business is driven by greed and they will stop at nothing to get the extra buck. They have vested interests and will keep those paramount even if it means destroying society as we know it. I think we are all kept in check by this and despite having freedom and the vote and so forth the reality is that we are living in a modern (financial) version of feudalism controlled by big business - not only banks.

I'm delighted you've got to the point where you don't blindly trust them. The next step is making sure you understand them. When you grasp the rationale (and believe me, there is always solid rationale behind what they do), you stand a much better chance of making progress for yourself.

The commercial banks have increased the debt burden of people hugely since the second half of the twentieth century by encouraging moves to credit cards and loans. These days it is the norm for a person to be paying a significant proportion of their earnings in interest, way more than in the sixties to eighties.

Did the banks do that, or did people bring it upon themselves? Bear in mind the National Credit Act was intended not only to reduce over-indebtedness, but to also increase access to credit. And the NCA is one of the pieces of legislation where in retrospect, I think "the ordinary people of SA" genuinely got what they wanted.

My personal view is most people don't use debt correctly. (Probably deserves a thread all on it's own, actually).

When you know the wind will blow against you, change the sail!

Absolutely
(Even if we probably have different changes to that sail in mind, I absolutely agree with the principle )

I am still waiting on an answer to my question; What do you suggest as an alternative to the existing banking system?

I believe this, more than anything else, is why the effort is doomed from the outset - the lack of a genuinely viable alternative proposal.

Even if NerERA wins a single line in the skirmish, the consequences of a change to the status quo are going to determine the path forward far more than the fault found. And I'm not talking about just the consequences to the big corporates and the big cheeses - I mean the consequences for all of society - quite literally civilisation as we know it.

[SkyWalker42]

The following article made it to Polity.co.za:

"Justus" is a Circus

"Imagine you discover that an Unconstitutional fraud is being perpetuated on the people of South Africa by the banks. You spend over a year collecting evidence and research with specific reference to South African economics and South African law. You create a non-profit organisation, elicit the support of 150,000 people and lay it before the High Court as best you can.

This is the story of The New Economic Rights Alliance, aka: NewERA."

Link : http://www.polity.org.za/article/new...013-2013-04-11

[SkyWalker42]

Scotty interviews Raymond Dicks who was in the court on the 9th of April.

http://downloads.newera.org.za/TheNews/

Download Episode 5.

[Dave A]

And their main argument? NewERA makes no sense

Given the result, I guess that part of their argument prevailed then.

[Blurock]

Well, I'm not a big fan of the banks, but from the outset it looked like NewEra did not even make sense to NewEra. Was the objective just to have their bond debt scrapped? Then that is what they should have asked for, not some far fetched idea or argument that makes no sense to anyone.