The Bradley Manning Saga

[Citizen X]

Is manning a lone she wolf? or is he/she part of a larger conspiracy.

I doubt very much that Manning acted alone. They must have been some planning and deliberation with one or more people involved here.

[AndyD]

Regardless of the content he revealed, you don’t betray your own country.

Surely this is the line of thought that ends up with people like the Nazi officers who were instrumental in the murder of millions and were 'just following orders'. The Neurenberg trials didn't agree with you.

[tec0]

This is a difficult one to answer correctly. For example you own a business you give your employee sensitive information. Now your intentions are not clear to the employee. What will the employee do?

Will the employee trust your judgement? OR will the employee mistrust your judgement? If so what will their actions be?

There really is no easy answer to this question.

[pmbguy]

I doubt very much that Manning acted alone. They must have been some planning and deliberation with one or more people involved here.

I am not talking about whether he acted alone or not regarding the leaks, ek is mos nie stupid nie. I am questioning whether the HE/SHE THING was totally that of Manning’s making, or whether the US manipulated the he/she thing to their advantage.

[pmbguy]

Hey Vanash, imagine how Assange is feeling about the sex-change thing. I suspect he is....what’s the word....apoplectic.
The sex-change twist is undoubtedly damaging to whistleblowers like wiki-leaks and others. But the larger impact is the effect on the sentiments of the general public towards such individuals and organisations. Essentially the whistle blowers have lost their martyr. In fact, their girl backfired on to them big time. I think the US government helped the backfire

[HR Solutions]

I think it is very easy to answer. From the US government perspective he did wrong because he broke the official secrets act, but from the publics point of view and from the world he showed us what scum they actually are. He will never get away with it because he is an American, therefore he has to face the US consequences !

[tec0]

Hey Vanash, imagine how Assange is feeling about the sex-change thing. I suspect he is....what’s the word....apoplectic.
The sex-change twist is undoubtedly damaging to whistleblowers like wiki-leaks and others. But the larger impact is the effect on the sentiments of the general public towards such individuals and organisations. Essentially the whistle blowers have lost their martyr. In fact, their girl backfired on to them big time. I think the US government helped the backfire

The sex-change thing is really misdirection. It shifts focus. Therein you find a new truth to how this will get played in the end. That said the law is the law... "or normally the law is the law" for the most part I would step back and just see what the coming months will unfold.

I as a computer literate knew from day one that there is no such thing as privacy on the net. Everything you do and say gets logged for future use. Be it advertising or other more sinister plans that doesn't matter.

So yea you are exposed... What he did was just confirming that "Uncle Sam" is actually making notes on your favorite wank material! And that will connect you to some system that will do something with that info.... So sorry gents but it is what it is

It is actually a joke if you think about it. The net is designed to take data from point A to point B now how will it be possible if data didn't know the source and the destination?

it is actually really funny. In order to go anonymous on the net you need serious skill and serious hardware not to mention a complete working knowledge for every single server and router system. Not to mention you will need access! That is serious hard core stuff. Most normal people can't do it.

a good example is 3G... The truth is those nice big 3G towers NEED to KNOW where your little smart phone is at ALL times... otherwise your phone cannot access it and it cannot serve you. "there is a "bus" sequence that gets renewed ALL THE TIME. IT HAS TOO!!! It even knows your distance between you and the tower thanks to signal strength. Thanks to directional antennas a lot more is possible.

[Citizen X]

Surely this is the line of thought that ends up with people like the Nazi officers who were instrumental in the murder of millions and were 'just following orders'. The Neurenberg trials didn't agree with you.

A very good afternoon to you Andy,

Touché. The sad thing about the holocaust is that the West knew what taking place and didn’t initially react.
1. More directly to your assertion though is the consideration of type of government. The Nazis were fascists whereas the USA, despite its shortcomings is a democracy. So the question is how should a soldier behave in a democracy?
2. In Nazi Germany all the atrocious steps taken to oppress the Jewish people were actually taken publicly and was even reported in the press. The Foreign mass media of that day commented vociferously on Nazi anti-Jewish activity. It’s now a historical fact that the USA made such information available to relevant Jewish leaders in November 1942. It was made public shortly thereafter. The Allies were actually aware of what the Germans had already done to the Jewish people at an early stage
3.Eventually, the American Government confirmed the reports to Jewish leaders in late November 1942. They were publicized immediately thereafter. While the details were neither complete nor wholly accurate, the Allies were aware of most of what the Germans had done to the Jews at a relatively early date.

“The response of the Allies to the persecution and destruction of European Jewry was inadequate. Only in January 1944 was an agency, the War Refugee Board, established for the express purpose of saving the victims of Nazi persecution. Prior to that date, little action was taken. On December 17, 1942, the Allies issued a condemnation of Nazi atrocities against the Jews, but this was the only such declaration made prior to 1944.”[1]

With Nazi Germany the bigger issue of morality was that countries which had power to act failed to act timeously.

4. With Manning, he/she was serving under a democracy in the capacity of a soldier. Common sense should have told him/her that what he/she was doing was treason. Besides the media were already reporting on civilian deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan. Again, I don’t condone the killing of any civilians by any military

In South Africa jurisprudence it's an established principal that you actually welcome to break the law as long as you are willing to face the consequences!

Back to Nazi Germany:
There was selective morality at Nuremburg! Not all that should have been tried were in actual fact tried. One would imagine that the scientist who developed the v1 and v2 rockets which killed indiscriminately i.e. just landed in any civilian area in Britian and exploded would be on the list of those to have been tried at Nuremburg. No so!
Wernher Magnus Maximilian, Freiherr von Braun, developed these rockets that killed so many civilians. He was aware of their purpose. Yet after WW11, the USA actually recruited him. H worked on the United States Army intermediate range ballistic missile. In 1975 he received a medal from the states for his contribution!

Back to Manning: If he truly had a sense of morality, he would have only released the documents that pertained to the civillian killing.

Let’s assume that the court held that based upon his sense of morality he is acquitted on charges pertaining to specific documents regarding civilian killing, let’s assume further that the court states that the leaking of the diplomatic cables is a treasonous act and grants the death penalty. What would now be wrong with this scenario?

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[1]http://motlc.wiesenthal.com/site/pp.asp?c=gvKVLcMVIuG&b=394663#20. Accessed 26 August 2013

[Citizen X]

The sex-change thing is really misdirection. It shifts focus.

I can't but agree! I think Manning is very clever! I know a thing or two about the South African criminal mind. Once caught, the criminal immediately tries to think of ways to get out of the prison sentence. You could for example somehow convince everyone that you on your death bed, no sooner you released on sick parole, you enjoying the finest restuarants and you no longer on your death bed.

Once charged many criminals start contemplating an 'insanity plea,' knowing that they won't leave the court a free man if convicted but if the plea succeeds that get confined to a mental institution.

It's questionable why Manning made such a revelation after conviction and not before.At least it's business for some, the health care providers are not going to care either way as long as they paid for the treatment. So the USA may have to pay for treatment for someone who betrayed them.

[wynn]

One must never forget that he served as a soldier, a position which calls for loyalty and trust.

So it was alright for Nazis to kill Jews because they were loyal trustworthy soldiers? crimes against civilians are crimes and need to be outed and all the other crap also needed airing same as with Edward Snowdon, I am sure they both considered what they did very carefully before they blew the whistle.
I don't like the Idea that USA killed innocent news cameramen or the fact that they are possibly spying on me!!!