The case against Christian public holidays!

[Citizen X]

An opportunity such as this would not have occurred had it not been for this question of Christian public holidays emerging for public comment. When I first joined TFSAM, TFSA members rightfully asserted that this is not a religious forum but rather a business forum. It’s also a forum in which we can address matters which are in the public interest. So, there you have it, my ground of justification.
The problem statement is very simple, “What must I do with this Jesus?” The prefect of Jerusalem Pontious Pilate first asked this very question in Matthew 27:22. My solution is very simple: You must merely accept Him and believe in Him! Nothing difficult there! Okay, to clarify, I’m not asking you for any donation, tin food or blankets, but you yourself can go and distribute such items to whomsoever may be in need!
1. The problem with religion is that it won’t always help you even if you do what it stipulates that you do! It may even cause you to be isolated and shunned! The law, the religion was very clear on leprosy, uncleanness caused by a bodily discharge and impurity resulting from contact with the dead. The law, the religion said, you must be sent away from that society, you must be secluded. So, if you were a woman and you had a continuance bleeding problem you were regarded as unclean and segregated, you most certainly could not come into the presence of a priest, temple and especially God! There was also a religious route to follow if you were a woman that suffered from this continual bleeding, you had to take a dove and a pigeon and perform such ritual before the priest and if you were healed you then sacrificed this dove and this pigeon.
2. In Mathew 9: 20- 22, Mathew introduces us to this woman with some issue of bleeding, the Bible is clear, she had this problem for 12 years. She said, something along the lines of , ‘if only I could touch his cloak I would be healed.’ The reasonable inference, she tried everything else, she done what the religion told her to do and she was no better, she had enough of religion. In fact, according to religion, she was not even supposed to be there out in the open and certain not touching the Most High, but there she was and she did touch his cloak and she was healed and guess what, The Most High did not forsake or shun her or put the religion to her, if religion was put to her and would have gone something like this, “You foolish, ignorant, arrogant woman! Don’t you know that the law says you must be secluded when when you have a discharge, and by the way that is just the monthly period, you have this horrible discharge for 12 years, you should be secluded, you are not even supposed to come in the presence of a an ordinary priest, yet you dare to come in the presence of the Most High, stone her to death!!!”Thank goodness and God for Jesus!If she had followed her religion she would have died a miserable death in a few years because of the continual bleeding
3. I’m at liberty to say a great many things which many of my Christian brethren are precluded from saying because they don’t have the privilege of my official status as the ‘heathen,’ ‘the lowly and despised things of this world,’ this is an exclusive club, you don’t get to join this club unless you really are the ‘lowly and despised things ,’ of this world! My official public relations statement clarifies: I am the worst Christian on this planet, I have only committed a trillion and 1 sins to date. Of the Lord’s servants I’m the least important, a mere footnote on his official list. I’m part of the foolish, weak and lowly and despised things of this world. I don’t have a holy than thou attitude! Unless anyone can make similar statement then they simply don’t enjoy the sheer privilege I have in raising questions and leveling criticism at my fellow Christians, any Church whatsoever, any bible student whatsoever, and pastor whatsoever and any professor of theology whatsoever. As the under dog, as the one at the bottom of the most important Christian list I get to criticize those at the top of this ‘most important Christian list,’
4. When I look at certain Christians(and only I as per my status aforementioned can really do so with good conscience) , I realise that if you take Christmas, Easter and Sunday church away from them, there is absolutely nothing left of their Christianity because the sum total of their Christianity is Christmas, easter and Sunday church. If you take Christmas, Easter and Sunday church away from somebody the lowly and despised likes of me, you take nothing from me at all! In fact, you give me more time to do the Lord’s work! You see, praise and worship is a daily labour of love, not a Sunday 1 hour burden, serving the Lord is a 24/7 job and paying homage to his birth and death are daily labour of love tasks. You can choose to fast and pray whenever to want to. A lot of Christian are surprised to hear that as a Christian you have a directive from the Lord, a simple one really, preach the gospel; Perhaps taking Christmas and Easter away from Christians will actually cause to buy some food and clothing for the poor instead of wasting huge amounts of money on clothing and food on so called holy or religious days which are not even endorsed in the Bible.
5. Becoming a Christian, you can embark in seconds, it really very simple: You simply have to confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that Jesus Christ is the Lord, is the Son of God and was raised from the dead and you will be saved, I give you my word.
6. I love and serve the Lord because I know what He’s done in my life, I’m acutely aware of many horror stories He spared me from. I cognisant about what he’s doing in my life at present and I believe the good plan, purpose and mission He has for my life going forward. You see, I qualify as the ‘prodical son, a trillion times over! The law, the religion, was very clear on how to deal with a prodical son, in short, you first beat the hell out of him and thereafter you and the rest of the community stone him to death and that was that! Now, here comes this Jesus says, NO, you don’t do that! You give him another chance, you accept him, you forgive him and you also restore him! Incidentally, The Lord promises restoration for you in all areas of your life! I’m not looking for any acceptance from anyone, I’ve already been accepted foetstoots by the Lord! I’m also not really looking for acceptance in a world that hates my God!
7. You see the religion, The law was very clear on how to deal with a prodical son, Deuteronomy 21:18-21

"If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death."
8. So, by this law, I should have rightfully being stoned to death only a trillion and 1 times, but JESUS(not me, JESUS), said no you don’t! Luke reasons it rather quite effectively, ‘He was lost but now he was found!”
9. If you simply must have religion, then the Bible does cater for you! James 1:27 ” Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.
10. Religion and law said that if you committed adultery, you must be stoned to death John 7
And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.


The single most important problem we have in the Christian community is that this is a kingdom but the King is not yet here, BUT, I’ve got news for you, you greedy pastors enriching yourself and your family in the name of Jesus: The King is coming!!! “Thy kingdom come, thy will be done.” So, the kingdom can never really be in order without it’s king! You don’t need no pastor or church to pray for you, you can pray yourself! You can also fast! You should strive to learn the Word of God at every opportunity! Jesus, said, “If you love me, you will obey my commands.” If you really want religion, then let the very basis of your religion be what the Christ commanded, i.e. visiting and taking care of the sick, visiting prisoners and giving to the poor! And, as Jesus said when you give, “don’t let your left hand know what your right hand is doing.” Don’t try and get attention or praise for the good you do. There is a certain pastor somewhere in the south that loves himself so much, he has a weekly publication in the local newspaper with his photo in as large as you can fit into a newspaper. He has conferred on himself and his wife numerous degrees and doctorates overnight and without having ever studied or wrote a dissertation for an accredited university. There are people in his church who are unemployed and who are living in abject misery. He on the other hand has the mansion, the luxury car, the big bank balance all from the church offering by the way. He’s always boasting about what his church done, giving a school money etc. You know when I see his picture in the newspaper, I feel like vomiting on him. I think that when his picture appears again, I will vomit on him and take it to his church and publically present it to him while he is preaching!

[adrianh]

...I still believe in The Flying Spaghetti Monster because we don't have to read between the lines and make up our own assumptions and tales about what he means and then go forth and rattle it all off to anybody who gets in earshot...
No Sir'ree, we just sit back, drink beer and eat Pizza, all day long...

[Citizen X]

...I still believe in The Flying Spaghetti Monster because we don't have to read between the lines and make up our own assumptions and tales about what he means and then go forth and rattle it all off to anybody who gets in earshot...
No Sir'ree, we just sit back, drink beer and eat Pizza, all day long...

No matter how many fish in the sea, it will be so empty with AdrianH! Where were you? I missed you!
An opportunity like this comes once in a lifetime, so under the auspices of current public interest i.e. objections etc, I just happen to have many host issues which finds reference here!
Let’s take your comment as a starting point, now had you been one of the many in and around Jerusalem, the elders and chief priests would have been very angry with you for your comment! In fact, they would have advocated stoning you to death for blasphemy. You would have had a saving grace though, you see the elders and chief priests had their own axe to grind with Jesus. They were out to trap him in any way they could, so they may have frog marched you to Jesus and said something along the following lines, “Rabbi, the law says that we should stone Adrian to death for blasphemy, can we start? But Jesus, would have answered, ‘You who is without sin, let him cast the first stone!” Jesus, final words to you would have simply been “I don’t condemn you, you free to go, go and sin no more.”
You must appreciate I like Jesus, it’s nice to deal with him, he’s approachable. Now this wasn’t always the case, there was a time when God was very unapproachable. In Hebrews 8:12, God , a deity says, “For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more." The immediate inference is that there was a time when He remembered your sins!
In Romans 8:1 The Bible stipulates : “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.”
1. The practical implication, you confess your sins, you don’t ask for forgiveness, you have already in one act at cavalry been forgiven for all your sins past, present and future. There is one other practical way that you really can ask for forgiveness every time you sin, you simply have to someone get hold of Jesus and lock him up in your cupboard, so then whenever you sin, you simply take him out of the cupboard, flog him, beat him and crucify him and thereby you forgiven for that individual sin on that day. You then put him back in your cupboard keeping him available for your next sin. When HE said , “IT IS FINISHED!”He meant nothing other;
2. DNA, we really do have the dna of Adam and Eve, you see when we sin we tend to hide away from God. Adam, who had seen God, walked and talked with God was trying to hide behind some bushes to avoid God from seeing him. I’ve got news for you, don’t run from God, run to Him. I commit some vile sin every now and then, I’ve since learned to boldly go to Jesus and confess and say ..look I f’d up!
3. The very same rebuke that Jesus directed at the chief priests and elders of his time can be equally directed at many church leaders. In short , they hypocrites! As a lowly and despised hopeless sinner, I can make such an allegation! I perceive many church leaders to be hypocrites, their God is money and their motivation is money! In Matthew 23 Jesus, said,
“Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: ² “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. ³ So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. ⁴ They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
“Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacterieswide and the tassels on their garments long; ⁶ they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; ⁷ they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others.
.“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
¹⁵ “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.”

[Blurock]

It is not possible to ignore God. Faith is not about everything turning out OK; Faith is about being OK no matter how things turn out.

I would rather live my life as if there is a God, and die to find out there isn't, Than to live my life as if there isn't, and die to find out there is.

[adrianh]

@Vanash - The thing I don't get about religious people is why they waste so much energy babbling about their beliefs...I couldn't actually care less what they believe or what threats they make about the afterlife. I can't say that I read the stuff that you write because it would give me a headache...

[Citizen X]

The problem statement is very simple, “What must I do with this Jesus?” Pilate defined the problem statement for us! Matthew 27:22.
The Jesus thing: For me, it’s been a situation along the following lines, despite the vile, grotesque and downright sinful things I’ve done, a stranger came to me, not me to him, and he said, ‘I’ve got a present for you! Here’s a bag with 1 million rands, it’s yours, I don’t want anything in return and goodbye, enjoy your money!
Similarly, what Jesus has done for me in my life is beyond expression in words! As at today’s date by virtue of the vile, grotesque and sinful conduct I’ve engaged in(the definition of sin being wide, ‘I got caught making love to another man’s wife!”), I should not even be acceptable in His sight, but I am!
It’s really about personal preference. That is, whether you prefer the back yard mechanic or the reputable car dealer. I personally prefer the backyard mechanic. To date, I prefer the services of my Black brother and sisters in the informal settlement in Lenasia i.e. plumber, tiler, mechanic, builder, electrician etc..
Take the ship building industry for instance. The Titanic and its ill fated voyage! It was initially meant to be name ‘the titan,’ we know that a Titan is a formidable Greek God. They said it would never sink and not even God could sink it, but it sinked! It was built by Alexander Carlisle at today’s price of 500 million US dollars! It required 15 000 workers. The length of its maiden voyage was some 5 days! Now, as it were, there was this other back yard ship builder called Noah. The architect of his ship was God himself. Noah and some 3 other helpers built this ship according to clear specifications given to them. The maiden voyage was some 370 days and there were no casualties, everyone on that ship survived. Naval experience will only get you so far, The captain of the Titanic boasted some 43 years of naval experience, Noah has 0!
This may apply to very few out there in cyber space, but if you are where I think you are, then you are exactly where the enemy who we call the devil wants you to be. It’s actually his job to condemn you in your mind, to make you feel guilty to make you feel unworthy of God. You must appreciate that if he can get you to do this, then,he doesn’t have to focus on you.
“Satan is a Hebrew noun meaning “adversary”—the enemy, opponent, antagonist, foe. The verb forms of the noun mean to “accuse,” “slander” and “be an adversary” (Anchor Bible Dictionary, Vol. 5, 1992, “Satan,” p. 985). The other term the Bible most often uses to describe this being, devil, is similarly revealing. Devil is translated from the Greek word diabolos, the root from which we get the
word diabolical, used to describe something wicked or sinister. Diabolos means “an accuser, a slanderer”
I don’t need or even want any donation, tin food or blankets from you! I encourage you to give such items to those in need. You see ‘servant,’ means you do physical work. You physically take the time and effort to hand such items out to those in need, you physically go and visit prisoners, not because I say so, but because Jesus specifically instructed you to do so!

[Dave A]

It’s really about personal preference.

I prefer the simple case against Christian public holidays (only) - it discriminates against other religions. Either they all get a look-in (which I'd argue is untenable) or none do.

[Citizen X]

I prefer the simple case against Christian public holidays (only) - it discriminates against other religions. Either they all get a look-in (which I'd argue is untenable) or none do.

A very good afternoon to you Dave! The simple case is realy just that, way to simple! This matter actually defies a short answer. I haven't even started with Easter as yet! The Easter debacle includes tons of valid arguments, don't know that I will have the energy to address Easter! Yes, in principle and in fairness, all human beings have a right to observe their religious holidays and even the right to create a new religion with new holy days and/or holidays. You surmise rather quite well when you say that all religions should ideally get their holy day/festival acknowledged as a public holiday and you go on further to conclude that this would be untenable. It will, according to my count, if we do include all religious days and even perceived religious days we looking at some 40 public holidays! The key party here is the major retailer and not actually the christian. The major retailer stands to loose big time if easter and christmas is scrapped....

[Dave A]

The simple case is realy just that, way to simple!

Too simple, or is the short answer in truth too inconvenient?

This matter actually defies a short answer.

It certainly does if you don't like the short answer

I suspect much of the social complexity of this world stems from something similar. But then, it also keeps the world interesting

[Citizen X]

Too simple, or is the short answer in truth too inconvenient?
I suspect much of the social complexity of this world stems from something similar. But then, it also keeps the world interesting

A very good morning to you Dave! Constructive rhetoric and dialogue sure does keep this sometimes crazy world of our interesting! It pains me, that had I made these remarks a couple of centuries ago, the church would have declared me a heretic and executed me!!!!

Brother VN, you don’t seem to have brotherly Christian love in you brother VN. Oh really, why?? You just get to belong to the very prestigious club of ‘lowly and despised,’ the heathen. You belong to this club by virtue of how you’ve conducted your life. So I qualify without any reservation, such reservation exists only in the minds of my detractors! You see you just happen upon this club of the weak, foolish and lowly and despised creature of this world. You really need to be low in status, in position and in income! I’ve earned this status! BUT, brother VN, you judging, criticizing and condemning, surely that’s not Biblical! Well, if you at the bottom of the pecking order and you not even on the Christian list let alone ‘the most important Christian list, then you get this privilege by default!!!

You know I as VN am nothing by the standards of this world, a mere nobody. I’m pleased with my ‘nobody status,’ tell them ‘nobody,’ shared the aforementioned with you……I’m not of noble birth, I’m not influential and I was not even wise by human standards when I was called to service of His Majesty!
“I'm like a head trip to listen to, cause I'm only givin you things you joke about with your friends inside your living room, The only difference is I got the balls to say it in front of y'all and I don't gotta be false or sugarcoated at all ,I just get on the mic and spit it.”
“The jail bars could not hold me, force could not control me now, they tried to keep me down, but God took I around, YES, I’ve been accused and wrongly abused now, but through the powers of The Most High, they got to turn me loose!”
1. We usually have a situation where a member of an organisation brings that organisation in disrepute. My situation is wholly different; the church in general has brought me into disrepute!!! The list is exhaustive, but inter alia, by displaying ignorance regarding Christmas and Easter, Ignorance for many centuries about the fact that the earth is not the centre of the universe, and the sun and other planets most certainly don’t revolve around the earth! More clod and clinical though is the fact that many so called pastors are peddling the ‘Word for profit,’ the fact that the church is meant to be a sanctuary but history tells us that educated Christian priests raped thousands of men and boys who came to the church for refuge! There is this certain other religion, that I won’t mention, where it’s members not priests, it’s members undertake to feed people quality food 2 times are here. I went to observe. They prepare 20- big pots of quality mutton biryani. This includes some 8 sheep, lots of rice and potatoes to name a few. The invitation is an open 1, anyone can attend and you don’t even have to stay for the prayers that follow. Not only do you get a quality meal but you also encouraged to bring an empty container to take some food home. The poor live on this for about 5 days! In stark contrast, I’ve attended certain ‘reputable,’ churches where food was available, BUT, NOT FOR FREE! You had to pay, it was expensive and they even made a profit!(another merc coming your way pastor???);
“Lord, it’s not easy! Think it through, he who hide the wrong he did, surely did the wrong still! This world is da mix up, the mix up, mix up! There’s so much stumbling blocks in my way Lord, in this mix up, mix up, mix up! AND you’ve been talking your mouth full of lies! AND, LORD, they criticize!”


2. I once encountered this ‘christian lady,’ at an unnamed gym, she remarked to me that I don’t look ‘Christian,’ oh really, how does a Christian look??? Naturally, I felt like vomiting on her, in much the same way as I’ve vomited on some chick in some club in the 80’s in a drunken stupor; It dawned on me though that If I had vomited on her, it would have been the vomit of a sober man and not the much necessary quality vomit that only a very drunk man could create. Therein lied my problem, she required quality vomit and I would have been unable to generate that much deserved quality vomit that she in particular really needed very, very much. I apologise for not having been able to grant a good quality vomit on you episode. With the benefit of retrospect, I’m deeply regretful! You really deserved some good old fashioned alcohol drenched vomit!!!!

3. ‘The God particle,’ I don’t know about the ‘God Particle,’ but I am privy to the activities of the enemy who among other things just like your typical criminal can and has and will continue to manipulate evidence at the crime scene as it were. I don’t know that an ape can become a man but I do question why this practice has suddenly stopped?
4. So no not God particle BUT God Effect, YES indeed!, You see there was this character in the middle of nowhere and God appeared to him(and no, there was no church choir, no church musical special effects to make the encounter more spiritual and holy as it were, by the way, you don’t need no church music special effects and/or piano or choir to have a legitimate spiritual experience with God!). God instructed him to go and free his people from bondage in Egypt. Now, he put his reasonable concerns to God, it went something like this(my paraphrase), ‘BUT, God, I don’t have confidence, I don’t know how to speak, in short, I’m a mess, I messed up big time in my life, I even murdered someone and perhaps more importantly I can’t really speak well.” The response, something along these lines, “ I have created the mouth and all aspects related to human speech and language including the very mechanisms in a man that emit sound, I will teach you what to say! It gets worse, Moses simply asks, basically if this stubborn ungrateful people whom you want me to lead out of slavery, who must I say sent me, who are you??? “ Tell THEM, I AM has sent you!” Moses probably said to himself, “Oh great, It was bad enough been in this bloody desert for 40 years and now I must go and tell my people “I Am,’ has sent me! What???
5. To put things in even clearly context, you see, even as early as 3000 BC, all Jewish people, knew, that you don’t go and use the words ‘I Am,’ loosely simply because of that vital Moses/God interaction….I’ve got some news for you! Jesus, did just that, what no one was supposed to do..Jesus said,


I am the resurrection and the life. (John 11:25, NIV)

I am the light of the world. (John 8:12, NIV)
I and my Father are one. (John 10:30, NIV)
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. (Revelation 22:13, NIV) I am the way, the truth, and the life. (John 14:6, NIV)
I am the only way to the Father [God]. (John 14:6)
“My road is long But yes I know! I’ve got to reach the end, I’m weary and tired, but I can’t stop to rest!”
6. “Yeah, I probably got a couple of screws up in my head loose..” I’m cool with this, truth is, I don’t really give a damn about what most pastors have to say, I’m just trusting in the Lord, just trusting in the Lord. I just turn to my Bible and good old fashioned faith. I just appeal directly to God and don’t go to another man to intervene on behalf of me, I don’t need or want a middle man. I just let the Holy Spirit guide me into all truth and not rely on some pastor for some of the truth. “The just shall live by faith,”
7. “I'm sick of him….Look at him, walkin around grabbin his you-know-what Flippin the you-know-who," "Yeah, but he's so cute though!"
8. You see thers’s either a God or there’s no God, and if there is a God, and He just happens to be the God of my understanding then the Bible is clear, “ If God be for you who can be against you,” and further that He wants us to worship in spirit and truth,’ emphasize on TRUTH here! My point, if you just so happen to be a professor in theology or a bible school student or a bible school graduate or a pastor then I’ll challenge you to live debate on public radio about Christmas and easter not been biblical at all and you know what, God will be for me and against you because I’m speaking the truth and you speaking a big LIE!!!! You see I know I’m not ‘Cleva,’ I admit I’m part of the “foolish things of this world!”
"Ah, wait, no way, you're kidding, he didn't just say what I think he did, did he?"
Yeah I did!!!!!


“Some will hate you, pretend they love you now, then behind they try to eliminate you! BUT, who God bless, no one can curse, then God will pass the worse!”