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Thread: You have the right to peaceful protest

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    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    You have the right to peaceful protest

    The trouble with opportunity is it normally comes dressed up as work.

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    i am still try to figue out why cosatu are against this...is it because they are gona loose out on 400 000 fees from employee...because the employee will be subsidised...so they wont have to pay subs to cosatu...or is there some othe reason?

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    Diamond Member tec0's Avatar
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    Sorry I am not going to take sides on this one; however labour broking is a profiteering slave trading business. There is no control no honour and no future for South African while labour brokers is around. The system needs to be scrapped.

    I know businesses like labour broking because they can force anyone to do anything at any time and the labourers will not have a foot to stand on. So there will be no more safety, no more job security no more long term loans that is the bases of buying property and investment growths. Thus on its own it can and did become violent.

    In the end the people spoke out they don’t want labour broking. The only reason why it is still on the table is because powerful people stand to profit from it.
    peace is a state of mind
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    Diamond Member Justloadit's Avatar
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    I suppose the reason for the unemployment is because of labour broking?

    or

    is it because you can not get rid of the useless idiot that calls himself an employee, and hides behind the LRA law?
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    Diamond Member adrianh's Avatar
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    No it is all because of labour brokers, they cause people to throw stones and beat up peaceful marchers and the are also responsible for the soaring costs of plasma tv's and the fact that the sky is blue. Those damned labour brokers even caused me to buy KFC last night. If we could only ban labour brokers then South Africa will be eden and we will all live peacefully and in harmony....

    Oh, I nearly forgot, Dave said someting about the right to march, no no no, rights only apply to those that apply Advanced Alternative logic, when you apply AA logic then you have the right to do what ever you want whenever you want but nobody else have such rights. The fact that AA rights contradict each other is not the problem of the AA logician, it is caused by those applying general logic to AA logical thinking. AA logic says that it is always true even though it proves using its own logic that it is not; hence the following equation:

    in AA logic form:
    5 classroom
    burn down 5 classrooms
    equals 10 classrooms

    in mathematical form:
    5 and 5 equals 10

    Now how can you lot not understand this AA logic, it must be Milky Bar thing.
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    Diamond Member adrianh's Avatar
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    @murdoc - The problem as Cosato sees it is this: The government want to make a wage subsidy available to allow young people to be easily employed. The DA and others are of the view that implimenting this subsidy would create 460,000 new jobs. Cosatu says that what would happen is that companies would get rid of older workers so as to employ young workers and hence pay lower salaries. Cosato says that it would also cause salaries to go down in general. The pro-subsidy lobby says that Cosatu is wrong in their thinking because the LRA does not allow companies to dump older employees in favour of cheaper younger employees. There are companies who do employ cheap labour and will trade their current labour for cheaper labour (but if that were the case they would do so anyway - subsidy or not) then there are companies who have skilled employees and who would not go through having to retrain the employees.

    The bottom line:
    Cosatu highlights is that there are a finite number of jobs in the market and that subsidising employment will not create new jobs.
    The DA says that the subsidy would create more jobs.

    I think that both views have merit.
    How easily someone is offended is directly proportional to how stupid they are.
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    Diamond Member tec0's Avatar
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    Whatever happened to month by month contracts and responsible hiring? If your business sits with useless employees it is your fault! This is classic actually. So because businesses hired the wrong people now the whole country must pay for it?

    So whose fault is it anyway? Fact unions exist because people where unfairly treated. Safety laws exist because people died for profit. Now if the companies took responsibility in the very beginning before unions and safety laws then half of what you are crying about would not even existed!

    It is easy to insult me BUT I didn’t higher the useless employee… YOU DID! YOU THE EMPLOYER DIDN’T DO YOUR HOME-WORK! YOU DIDN’T PROTECT YOUR COMPANY! Not me… So now labour broker is an easy fix for your own negligence. So you deem me an idiot. But you can only blame yourself for not protecting your business from the beginning.

    A clever business person will never had the need for a labour broker Simple administration and proper responsible hiring of employees is all that is needed.
    peace is a state of mind
    Disclaimer: everything written by me can be considered as fictional.

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    Diamond Member adrianh's Avatar
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    No, a clever employer doesn't employ any locals, he either has all the work done in China or he hires Zimbabweans. Local employees are absolutely useless and their unions cause more trouble than anything else.
    How easily someone is offended is directly proportional to how stupid they are.
    ~GS Elevator

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    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianh View Post
    The bottom line:
    Cosatu highlights is that there are a finite number of jobs in the market and that subsidising employment will not create new jobs.
    The DA says that the subsidy would create more jobs.

    I think that both views have merit.
    That's suprisingly narrow minded finite-resource thinking, considering whence it comes

    Where does job growth come from?
    I'd suggest growing businesses, or establishing new businesses via entrepreneurship.
    For a business to grow, profits help (and in most instances would seem a critical component ).
    To add new businesses, I suggest some workplace experience helps.

    We wonder why so few youth that can't get jobs don't get off their asses and start working for themselves - well maybe with some workplace experience under the belt we'll see more youth being more entrepreneurial, because now they'll have an idea as to what to strive for.

    I could see an argument that a youth employment subsidy should be subject to stringent conditions to prevent abuses... and I suggest that should be the area of debate before a final decision, rather than just dismissing the idea out of hand.

    Just not enough "big picture" thinking out there at the moment.

    And talking about "big picture" - I see COSATU justifies their actions of yesterday as justfiable self defence.

    Self defence against what?
    Being served with a list of grievances?

    So now we know the appropriate response should a trade union happen to want to deliver a list of grievances on anyone...
    Rent-a-mob here we come!
    The trouble with opportunity is it normally comes dressed up as work.

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    Diamond Member Vanash Naick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tec0 View Post
    Sorry I am not going to take sides on this one; however labour broking is a profiteering slave trading business. .
    I simply must agree with tec0's position on labour brokers. I too stand against it.The Consititutional rights:Freedom of association, freedom of speech and the right to protest are imperative in a democracy with constitutionalism. This, however does not mean that protestors should infrige another peoples rights of movement i.e. blocking roads, or damage private property and injure and sometimes even kill innocent third parties. It must be a nightmare for the businesses in Johannesburg. Surely they can't trade properly when these protests take place. If I were to speak on behalf of businesses in Johanneburg, i would tell protestors this:"I support your right to protest but please don't damage my shop! Please don't prevent my customers from entering my shop!You chasing my customers away!!
    On the note of modern day slavery, there are textbook examples of slaves. Certain elements of mankind still trade in human beings in the 21st century! Slavery was wrong before, though it is illegal and morally reprehensible today, it still takes place especially the child sex slave trade.
    "n average slave in the American South in 1850 cost the equivalent of $40,000 in today’s money; today a slave costs an average of $90.
    In 1850 it was difficult to capture a slave and then transport them to the US. Today, millions of economically and socially vulnerable people around the world are potential slaves.
    This “supply” makes slaves today cheaper than they have ever been. Since they are so cheap, slaves are today are not considered a major investment worth maintaining. If slaves get sick, are injured, outlive their usefulness, or become troublesome to the slaveholder, they are dumped or killed. For most slave holders, actually legally ‘owning’ the slave is an inconvenience since they already exert total control over the individuals labor and profits. Who needs a legal document that could at some point be used against the slave holder? Today the slave holder cares more about these high profits than whether the holder and slave are of different ethnic backgrounds; in New Slavery, profit trumps skin color. Finally, new slavery is directly connected to the global economy. As in the past, most slaves are forced to work in agriculture, mining, and prostitution. From these sectors, their exploited labor flows into the global economy, and into our lives."



    Last edited by Vanash Naick; 16-May-12 at 04:06 PM.
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