The President is to be commended

[Chatmaster]

I also accept that I owe the ANC a whole bunch more than they owe me.

Why would you owe the ANC anything?

[AndyD]

The ruling party is scum. They are the vilest of scum. They have raped our new "democracy" and election system consistently. ANC officials have direct ties to crime syndicates, drugs and poaching. They shoot protesters, give badges to serial murderers and rapists and train people to torture and murder farmers.

How will "changing" MY attitude and perception affect these wretched depraved bipedal excrement? How will creating "awareness" among law abiding, monogamous, middle class whites, stop aids rape? "Good" people aren't the problem in the first place. If you want to make a difference we need to hang every last corrupt politician, rapist and murderer from a tree.

Zuma is a criminal and a rapist. He's already sold out our country numerous times to China and India thus destroying our local industries. Now Wallmart (Makro, builders warehouse, Trade Centre, Game, same group) will finish off the remaining small businesses. Zuma will make a speech about "job creation" and then give the ruthless foreign mega corps the go ahead to eliminate independent business IN THE SAME Publication.

So now we are supposed to be introspective and feel guilty about decisions made decades ago that did not benefit me at all nor had anything to do with me? Don't even mention Apartheid or "previously disadvantaged" to me. No illiterate black given a job because of BEE fascism feels even remotely guilty about being woefully unqualified, the white person who was fired before them nor the impact on the company or institution now suffering because of them.

The ANC are nazis, but Nazi's that sell their own people into slavery,sell stolen national assets to foreign interests and destroy vital infrastructure forever. I wish just one Xhosa or Zulu would take responsibility for these last 16 years of destruction, criminality, genocide, decay and for the majority of this country: real hell.

The political pendulum in this country is still swinging between extremes, it will take a lot more time until it finds a natural middle ground. As long as the social landscape in SA is seen as Black and White or 'us' and 'them' it will hinder this nation from progressing. Corruption, aids rape, murder and violence are all symptoms of this divided society and the division is fueled by hate speech.

I'd be interested in reading Superscenic's view of the Steve (Hofmeyr) letter to Julius thread.

Thought you might like this picture of a ceremonial wooden spoon I found.

[Dave A]

Thought you might like this picture of a ceremonial wooden spoon I found.

Thanks for sharing that. It is indeed strangely appealing.

[Martinco]

@ChrisNG53
Methinks you are a sock puppet. Do they pay you per post or per hour?

Superscenic, let us play the ball and not the man !

[ChrisNG53]

@CHATMASTER -- what I (we) owe the ANC is appreciation on account of the fact that it knocked over one of the most evil social engineering systems in history and gave us freedom.

@AndyD - I would agree that tragically we now have a fragmented populace who see themselves as being in "camps". The really bad aspect is that many feel alienated.

Might I tempt you to see that we don't only have an "us" (Blacks) and "them" (Whites) social phenomenon. We also have "the other", i.e, Coloureds, Indians .... I had already written a book about this - http://theother.orgfree.com/

Not surprisingly we now have a telling documentary - "I'm Not Black, I'm Coloured - Identity Crisis at the Cape of Good Hope" by Mondé World Films - .

@Dave A - Thank you.

[Chatmaster]

ChrisNG53 thank you for clarifying your point.

If there is one phenomena I am unable to understand it is the incredible gratefulness towards the ANC for ending apartheid. This is very tragic, because what I recall and what was historically documented is in many ways the complete opposite from what is being told and believed by many today. It is as-if the ANC were able to rewrite history without anyone challenging them. Even academics from universities all over the country and internationally are writing books about these so-called facts.

Even with the JM hate speech trial it became clear, that through the years they took credit from individuals and other organisations such as the PAC and got away with it and simply ignored the facts. The Madiba (Who imho was a true leader at a later stage in his life) phenomina and international press played a significant role in giving them a status which they didn't deserve.

The irony is that they had very little to do with it. But the topic of tumbling apartheid is very complex indeed, with many different views from very different frames of reference.

If I think back about detail regarding the apartheid era and the absolute sickening things that clouded the minds of white people I am just thankful that I grew up in a home where my parents taught us to respect people regardless of race. I cannot imagine how it must have felt for non-whites to see "Whites Only" everywhere, being insulted, being treated like scum just because of their skin colour, or mmmm maybe, mmmmmmm I wonder... is history repeating itself?

You do not owe the ANC any gratitude, rather realize that you owe your gratitude to many different people, organisations, media etc. that stood up and said enough of this insanity and the millions of people that gave FW De Klerk the mandate to end apartheid.

The whites were safe and in many ways isolated from the EVIL terror acts that played itself out on borders and in townships and the sickening methods that the SADF, SAP, ANC and PAC etc. used hardly effected them. The majority of them voted yes for what was right.

But people seem to forget so easily...

[Martinco]

The irony is that they had very little to do with it. But the topic of tumbling apartheid is very complex indeed, with many different views from very different frames of reference.

If you have the opportunity then read the book on the life of Pik Botha which illustrates and supports the statement above very clearly.

[ChrisNG53]

@Martinco - thank you. Your point has great validity.

Still I am grateful to the ANC, as I am to all those brave folk, such as Helen Suzman that were prepared to stand up against apartheid.

[Dave A]

I wonder if race and racial identity is really our problem here - at times I can't help thinking that the real problem is the dysfunctional political identity of our central player, the ANC.

Just what is the political identity of the ANC?

The party claims to be a broad church embracing multiple social ideologies. I suggest this traces back to a positioning as a "people's government in exile" during the apartheid era, but is it tenable today now that they are the majority party with their hands on the reins of power?

The party is currently controlled by a group that has a strong penchant for the very worst traits of elitist capitalism (corruption, nepotism, patronage and largesse), joined at the ballot box with a grouping with fairly extreme socialist ideologies (if the SACP and COSATU ideologies are actually seperable). How on earth can we expect a stable, congruent political direction from such a bizarre pairing?

And more to the topic of this thread - what is the glue that is keeping this pairing together?

Well, much of it is brand power of course. Brand loyalty is as powerful a force in politics as it is in business. And I suggest if it wasn't for the brand power of the ANC label, the elitist capitalists and the socialists would have parted ways a long time ago already.

But brand loyalty has to be maintained or it will wane, and here's where the problems really start.

This is turning into a lengthy post. It's getting late and perhaps it wouldn't hurt to break this up some. So I'll pick up on my line of thought in this tomorrow.

(Bullet point reminders to self:
Culture of debt.

Points of focus.

It's a package deal. (What are you backing?))

[ChrisNG53]

@DaveA - perfectly put so far.

When you conclude you need to include -
1. operational mode;
2 operational culture;
3. mission and
4. vision.