Ducting in a roof

[123]

I'll tell why the question, SANS says: If any part of the installation is altered/renewed/modified....then the entire installation must comply to SANS 10142, regardless of its year of origin.

Now you have me worried. Can you please point me to the Sans reg. or OHS act which state the above? I was under the impression that the act makes provision explicitly for a) New installations , b) existing installations and c) Existing installations (to comply with clause 5 of sans) and the effected alterations/extensions to comply with complete sans 10142.

To try and answer the question, my opinion would be to just close the ducting, get someone with the equipment (bender/cutters) to manufacture the cover, screw it on the ducting. Make sure all exit and entry conductors/cables is mechanically protected at entry/exit points at the ducting. (ps it is ducting? not a cable rack?) and yes you are correct, it seems open wiring type is compliant, as long as it complies with sans 6.4.5 and 6.4.6, and if Wireways is used the 6.5 as well. But if the installation is an old installation (20 years+? you said?) then it is excluded from a type (b) or (c) (OHS Act) certification. (??)

I am always confused, it just varies on quality.... :-)

[Jacques#1]

When I did my Installation courses etc. I was taught that you do get new/existing installations. This is specific to testing for a whole site like a guy wanting to sell.

When doing an existing installation: If there has been no changes to the ENTIRE system, then you can work off the pre/post 1992 law. Keep in mind that replacing an item e.g. a light or a breaker is not changing/altering the system (as I see it).

Obviously, if you test and the system was post 1992, the it must comply to SANS 10142. If you test a prior to 1992, then you can work off "reasonably" safe. If there was a change made, eg. a new light cable was chased into the wall, an additional switch added and the system is prior 1992, then it must be updated to post 1992 i.e. SANS10142. Usually there is nothing wrong with the wiring, as steel piping, open wiring etc. is still legal. But, the DB needs some TLC, the Geyser needs an isolator as well as the gate motor and other fixed appliances. When doing this you test the whole system, because you did not install the stuff, you got there after the fact, the owner wants a COC for the entire installation.

When doing an altered installation: The altered installation will feed off a breaker in the Main DB board or something similar. The work that you have personally done, you can issue a COC for, it will be post 1992. You will not issue a COC for the entire installation. This changes when another guy gets there and has to issue a COC for the entire system. He will then test your work as well as the existing installation, which would mean it will be post 1992. You cannot issue 2 COCs for a house, one for altered work and one for existing work. This would in a legal sense mean that you can for every new SO or whatever do a COC, and not have to install an earth leakage and isolators because of the age of the installation....to me it doesn't make sense.

This is what I was taught, my views/comments on it anyway.

[123]

Just a few points to consider: The term "before 1992" is not part of the new legislation. It has been changed to "the publication of the last amendment of SANS 10142-1", and I believe the new SANS was published last year with new amendments.

So, an existing installation, according to the briefing I went to, and according to the new act, is any installation that existed before the date of the last publication of SANS 10142-1. Now this was approved in November 2009 and is also the date valid for publication (Page 3(b)) in SANS 10142-1: 2009.

The act also clearly states that an existing installation (part 9. (b) of the act) should only comply with Clause 5 of sans 10142-1:2009, which is the "general safety principles".

It goes further to say that "EFFECTED" alterations or extensions, and please note, it does not say "AFFECTED", it says effected (something that was done), should comply with the complete rules and regs of sans 10142-1: 2009.

For some reasons, at the presentations I went to, the word "affected" was used, instead of "effected", which can create major misconceptions in our trade, which in turn leads to a total rip-off towards the public.

If your alterations or extensions which you have done (effected), should cause any part of the existing installation to be non-compliant with the general safety principles (again, only clause 5 of sans10142), you should rectify that situation so that it does comply with clause 5.

Such alterations or extensions that you have effected however, must be fully compliant.

Clause 7. (3) of the act also states:

(3) Subregulation (1) shall not apply to an electrical installation that existed prior to 23 October 1992, and where there was no change of ownership after 1 March 1994: Provided that, if any addition or alteration is effected to such an electrical installation, the user or lessor of the electrical installation, as the case may be, shall obtain a certificate of compliance for the whole electrical installation, whereafter the provisions of subregulation (1) shall be applicable to such electrical installation.

7. (1) Subject to the provisions of subregulation (3), every user or lessor of an electrical installation, as the case may be, shall have a valid certificate of compliance for that installation in the form of Annexure 1, which shall be accompanied by a test report in the format approved by the chief inspector, in respect of every such electrical installation.


Which i understand as: You do not need a COC if the installation existed before 23 October 1992 AND there was no change of ownership, otherwise you "shall" obtain a valid CoC.

Which bring us right back to the three types of CoC's classified as valid by the act: a) New,- Complete SANS, b) Existing,-Clause 5 only of SANS and c) Existing with extensions/alteration under your general control.-Clause 5 for the old part and complete sans for the new parts which you have done under your general control.

A new installation is one build from the ground up, now. When you are done, the installation should be assessed as new.

[Jacques#1]

I do believe that we are saying the same thing. Section 5.1, 5.2, and 5.3 for a new installation, 5.4 both blocks for an older one before October 1992.

I have ammendment 6 (last year), I know there is a later version which came out this year, but it only includes the addition of the DOL letter on the COC as far as I know.

At the part of the book in the annexures at testing and inspection, it still refers to pre and post 1992 October, where SANS 10142 is/is not applicable.

You have me worried now, because the book is not clear at another point, and I am confused. Very plainly put: If I get to a house, built in 1957, there is no earth leakage, and no main switch, but they installed 10 new socket outlets and 10 new lights, this is ok because the house is prior to 1992, but the alteration does not affect the old installation? Or, the geyser cables melted, and they replaced the CB, cables and element, but the geyser and house is pre 1992 so no isolator is needed?

So what do you do, do you fill in the house and all the CB's on the existing bit, and the new CB's and SO on the altered bit? I am seee rrrrr iiii ooooo ssss lllll yyyyy confused, this doesn't make sense at all? I thought the drive in the electrical legislation was to eventually get the old wiring methods out, this being done by demanding COC's and updates to the new laws is alterations was made?