History not to be taught in our schools

[garthu]

Oh and Dave, no microsoft, you make a good argument for them having won

[twinscythe12332]

Oh and Dave, no microsoft, you make a good argument for them having won

I'll take Microsoft over being shot in the face for complaining about the nazi background any day, thanks.

[Butch Hannan]

The unfortunate thing that is happening is that the way history is being taught it is perpetuating and imprinting hatred into he psyche of young people. What a lot of people do not realise is that hatred like the other emotions such as greed and jealously are actually self destructing emotions. They will destroy any individual who is caught up and overcome with these emotions.

[Butch Hannan]

When I started this thread I merely said that history should not be taught in our schools. It leads to dangerous brain washing of young people and perpetuates hatred. Our history is our history and we are stuck with it whether it be good or bad.
To ban religion as history would show will never work. I have only good memories of the various ministers that I have been involved with and they certainly did not enrich themselves at my expense. My giving to the church has always been of my own free will and as the Holy Spirit has convicted me to do.

[adrianh]

There is no such thing as unbiased history. Everybody sees the past to suit their needs. Some say the pyramids were tombs, some say they were machines generating energy. Some say the bible is the only truth while other say that the Romans concocted the stories to control society. Some say 9/11 was comitted by terrorists and some say that the FBI did it...etc.

The problem is that whatever we believe was recorded by some person, concocted by some person or rewritten by some person. Just as CNN reports whatever suits their pockets, so do journalists.

I once heard a wonderful saying "You can change the future, but you can't change the past"

To get back to history being taught at schools - When I was at school many many years ago I learned about Jan Van Riebeek, Wolraad Wotemaade and how the voortrekkers trekked up north and whacked the blacks. I learned that "Die groot swart gevaar" is going to come from Angola to kill the whites. I was taught that black people should sit in 3rd class in the back carriage of the train. I was taught that the black should work in the garden and not sit at the supper table. BTW: Black people were not allowed in the NG church, our gardener and maid were the only people that attened my fathers funeral.

So you tell me: what is the difference between the rubbish that is being taught now and the rubbish that was taught then?

[Butch Hannan]

Teaching history tends to perpetuate the agendas hidden or otherwise of the people in power. A lot of the things that you mention were actually legislated which makes it worse. They were not in the history books. Let us not forget that the Voortrekkers were actually running from a very oppressive British colonial rule. They were forced to study in English at the schools.

[tec0]

Well let us not forget that religion can also be an evil thing. And here is a bit of a history lesson:

1985 -- In one of the first major abuse cases to become public, Louisiana priest Gilbert Gauthe pleads guilty to 11 counts of molesting boys. He serves 10 years in prison.

1992 -- Massachusetts priest James Porter is charged with sexually abusing more than two dozen boys and girls. Porter, who pleads guilty and is sentenced to 18 to 20 years in prison, is the first case in what becomes a major scandal in the Boston diocese.

1992 – At a meeting in South Bend, Ind., the U.S Conference of Catholic Bishops acknowledges that some bishops have attempted to cover up abuse.

1996 -- Milwaukee's archbishop writes to Cardinal Ratzinger calling for canonical trials for two priests in his diocese who are accused of sexual abuse, including Murphy. He receives no response. Over the next two years, Wisconsin bishops will press for Murphy's dismissal but receive no encouragement from the Vatican.

1997 -- Maciel is charged with sexually abusing seminarians and boys in his care. Ratzinger orders the investigation closed.

1999 -- A Massachusetts court brings child rape charges against former priest John Geoghan. Throughout his career, Geoghan had been repeatedly accused of sexually molesting boys but was transferred from parish to parish until 1998, when he was finally defrocked.

2002 -- The Vatican issues guidelines for dealing with allegations of child sexual abuse by priests. It calls for all cases to be reported to Rome but makes no mention of reporting the charges to local criminal authorities.

2002 -- Geoghan is sentenced to up to 10 years in state prison. Boston Cardinal Bernard Law apologizes to Geoghan's victims, and the archdiocese pays $10 million to settle lawsuits brought by victims and their families.

Law and his top aides are accused of covering up allegations against pedophile priests. In December, on the day that he is scheduled to testify before a grand jury, Law goes to Rome, where he remains. A week later, he resigns as archbishop of Boston.

The following year, Geoghan dies in prison, murdered by a fellow inmate.

2004 -- A report commissioned by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops details allegations of child sexual abuse against Catholic priests between 1950 and 2002.

The report, by the John Jay College of Criminal Justice, finds that more than 10,000 people have made such allegations during the period. Catholic dioceses are able to substantiate accusations against more than 4,000 priests in the U.S., about 4 percent of all priests who served during that time.

2004 -- The Portland, Ore., archdiocese files for bankruptcy, saying it has been drained by tens of millions of dollars in settlements paid to victims of sexual abuse by priests. Other dioceses follow suit, including those in Tucson, Ariz., Spokane, Wash., and Davenport, Iowa.

2005 -- Ratzinger is elected pope.

2006 -- A reopened Vatican investigation finds Maciel guilty of multiple acts of sexual abuse of minors. He is not defrocked but is ordered by Pope Benedict to stop his public ministry and adopt a "life of prayer and penitence."

2007 -- The San Diego diocese becomes the largest in the nation to file for bankruptcy, beset by more than 150 lawsuits alleging sexual abuse by about 60 priests.

Lawyers for the plaintiffs charge that the diocese chose bankruptcy to avoid having details of the abuse claims come out in court.

2007 -- The Archdiocese of Los Angeles agrees to pay $660 million to settle abuse claims brought by more than 500 people

2008 -- Pope Benedict announces that he is "deeply ashamed" by the sexual abuse scandals among priests in the U.S. He says the church will not allow pedophiles in the priesthood.

2010 -- Long-simmering allegations of priest sexual abuse come to the fore in Germany, Brazil and Ireland. One case alleges that when Pope Benedict was archbishop of Munich in the early 1980s, he approved the transfer of a priest who was accused of molesting boys. After then-Cardinal Ratzinger's departure, the priest was allowed to resume pastoral work, where he continued the pattern of abuse. A Vatican spokesman says the pope was not responsible for the priest's subsequent crimes.

Source:

http://www.vpr.net/npr/126160853/

So I am sticking with my guns on this one, history is a destructive tool if abuses but can be educational if used correctly. But history cannot be objective because there are always two sides to every coin... Now if only the one side is being told to cultivate hate... then clearly one must question motive.

And as the above have sown you, if religion is used for evil it can and will be devastating! Why would I allow my child “if I had children� to go to church with a “history� like the above mentioned.

The point I am making is that it is our responsibility as a parent to teach our children the truths of this world. Still it is easier to watch the “game� on TV then to sit down and teach them “because that is the teachers job anyway.�

[adrianh]

The point I am making is that it is our responsibility as a parent to teach our children the truths of this world

This is a circular argument - how do you know what the truth is if everytning you were taught, and everything you get from the media, is biased to start with.

Truth is bull$hit anyway - the human mind operates in shades of grey - not black and white - there is only perception and approximation.

The only thing you can teach your children is to keep an open mind and to look at things from different perspectives.

I agree that religion can be very destructive but it also serves its intended purpose which is to keep the general population in check through fear of the unknown. Get a hold of the following documentary: Zeitgeist.

[tec0]

Zeitgeist.

Yes well I have seen this documentary lots of times before and NO. The basic truth is we are not America. Here we are dealing with simple corruption not supper human bankers. The documentary may be true for America but here we are dealing with something else.

Right now South Africa is a haven for criminals of all kind there is simply no law anymore. As it stands it is every person for him or herself. We have seen our rights being stripped away and things are becoming hopeless to the point where children as young as 7 have committed suicide. I will say it again we are not America, our crime rate is responsible for 18000 deaths per year and that is excluding health related deaths and suicides.

[Butch Hannan]

You have reacted exactly as I thought you would tec0. A lot of the evils of this world have been caused by over zealous religions. Conversely a lot of the evils of this world have been changed for the better due to the efforts of organised religion. The churches on the opposite side of the Afrikaans Churches were in the forefront of bringing apartheid to an end in this country. In the town that I live in there would be a lot of very hungry people if it was not for the efforts of the local churches. At least they put their money where their mouth is by running feeding schemes. Various religions do an awful lot of good in this world.

Unfortunately a lot of people hijack religion for their own nefarious needs. They will eventually be judged one day and I would not like to be in their shoes when this judgement takes place.

Statistically the world has about 2.1 billion Christians followed by about 1.5 billion followers of the Islamic faith. Either approximately two thirds of the world population are correct or horribly misguided.