May Telkom burn!

[jinxster]

Hi Dave,

Ok I am a new member here.

I have (sell):
Semi shaped service - R40 per gb
Prepaid service - R75
626 unshaped service - R50
Shaped Service - R110 per gb
Local - R10 per gb

In answer to SoftDux, you cannot really compare a diginet line to a DSL line by means of the number in front. A 64kb diginet line is quoted on kilobytes and the 4mb is quoted on megabits. But I agree, DSL gives more for your money.

On a 64kb diginet you should be downloading at a speed of 64kb/s. So a 64mb file should take you 1024 seconds about 17minutes to download.

On 4mb DSL line, you should be able to get 4096 / 10 (start and stop bit included) 410kb/s which is higher. However your throttled on the upload and like Dave says shaped services generally start putting you to the back of the queue for "non mainline home use" contention services and hence you may just find that if Dave lowers his speed he may actually see his IMAP working.

Some advice outside of changing your connection is to use a VPN... our service includes a vLock and vDNS (like Axxess since I resell their services) which can assist you in your IP changing and VPN needs.

In reality 410kb/s on a 4mb line doesn't exist. It is a "burstable" service. So at max speed that is what you would get. The average DSL line is shared with 3 other subscribers so if they sleeping you could get your 410kb/s. However you dont get that anyway becuase things are happening at an un synched speed, like the government queue issue issue, you downloading your file you get packets that must wait in line, then they get lost and then tcp/ip fixes the problem by saying... send packet xyz again pease.

This means if you downloaded the same 64MB file on the 4mb DSL line, you may be able to get (best case scenario) the file in 160 seconds. But in reality you end up waiting in queues and lost packets occur and hence you actually need to download 128mb to get your 64mb file.

You must understand the DSL is still a shared service and T lines and diginet lines are still where guarentees come in. The downside for T / diginet lines is the internet mesh is so well connected the users dont see problems much anymore. But I still havent seen such great speeds as the speed of the lines go up which means that Telkom are still sharing us and as people get more, we actually are competeing our own service down.

If I were to sell at R29 a gig i would actually lose out on the debit orders since the cost of the debit order pushes my cost over the R29. However what I think afrihost may be doing is (dont quote me on this maybe one of their customers can help me out), they run 2 companies, claim the VAT back on the purchase of the service and then dont give out VAT invoices from another company and so, they make the 14% profit (which is actually about 9% if you take into account the banking charge and so on. Does anyone get an invoice from afrihost? and do they send to all customers? I hear some customers complain they cannot get a VAT invoice then when it mysteriously appears the name of the company changes....

So if that is true, then SARS may go knocking on their door one day... but Afrihost may magically fix that too before SARS get to the actual audit.

Many thanks
Andrew

[SilverNodashi]

Hi Dave,

Ok I am a new member here.

I have (sell):
Semi shaped service - R40 per gb
Prepaid service - R75
626 unshaped service - R50
Shaped Service - R110 per gb
Local - R10 per gb

In answer to SoftDux, you cannot really compare a diginet line to a DSL line by means of the number in front. A 64kb diginet line is quoted on kilobytes and the 4mb is quoted on megabits. But I agree, DSL gives more for your money.

On a 64kb diginet you should be downloading at a speed of 64kb/s. So a 64mb file should take you 1024 seconds about 17minutes to download.

On 4mb DSL line, you should be able to get 4096 / 10 (start and stop bit included) 410kb/s which is higher. However your throttled on the upload and like Dave says shaped services generally start putting you to the back of the queue for "non mainline home use" contention services and hence you may just find that if Dave lowers his speed he may actually see his IMAP working.

Some advice outside of changing your connection is to use a VPN... our service includes a vLock and vDNS (like Axxess since I resell their services) which can assist you in your IP changing and VPN needs.

In reality 410kb/s on a 4mb line doesn't exist. It is a "burstable" service. So at max speed that is what you would get. The average DSL line is shared with 3 other subscribers so if they sleeping you could get your 410kb/s. However you dont get that anyway becuase things are happening at an un synched speed, like the government queue issue issue, you downloading your file you get packets that must wait in line, then they get lost and then tcp/ip fixes the problem by saying... send packet xyz again pease.

This means if you downloaded the same 64MB file on the 4mb DSL line, you may be able to get (best case scenario) the file in 160 seconds. But in reality you end up waiting in queues and lost packets occur and hence you actually need to download 128mb to get your 64mb file.

You must understand the DSL is still a shared service and T lines and diginet lines are still where guarentees come in. The downside for T / diginet lines is the internet mesh is so well connected the users dont see problems much anymore. But I still havent seen such great speeds as the speed of the lines go up which means that Telkom are still sharing us and as people get more, we actually are competeing our own service down.

If I were to sell at R29 a gig i would actually lose out on the debit orders since the cost of the debit order pushes my cost over the R29. However what I think afrihost may be doing is (dont quote me on this maybe one of their customers can help me out), they run 2 companies, claim the VAT back on the purchase of the service and then dont give out VAT invoices from another company and so, they make the 14% profit (which is actually about 9% if you take into account the banking charge and so on. Does anyone get an invoice from afrihost? and do they send to all customers? I hear some customers complain they cannot get a VAT invoice then when it mysteriously appears the name of the company changes....

So if that is true, then SARS may go knocking on their door one day... but Afrihost may magically fix that too before SARS get to the actual audit.

Many thanks
Andrew

Wow Andrew, careful with the advertising spam. P.S. Afrihost & Axxess can offer those prices since they "write off" the extra fees on advertising, marketing, etc. They take about R10/GB off of what IS charges them, but they gain those clients back much quicker than you do And they're not skimming on their VAT so be careful of such an accusation.

P.S. I been in the industry much longer than you think and know very well how DSL & diginet works. My comparison was a bit different and still stands.

[IanF]

Hi Andrew
I get a valid tax invoice from Afrihost, maybe they just get better rates than you.

[tec0]

Interesting. However you cannot ignore the fact that we have only one service provider “Telkom”

and everyone else is just dealing trough Telkom. Fact is Telkom is cost effective but you would be surprised that TELKOM still doesn’t offer DSL in my aria. We are still stuck with 56k dial up and downloading your mail from that will up your stress and end up killing you...

If you want to send your family a Video clip or even use Skype on 56k I am sorry but you are dead in the water. Vodacom works OK most of the time but even with a tower being so close I can read the no-entry signs on it; it doesn’t help with my speed.... “Rather doesn’t help with my speed anymore” it use to be good.

In all honesty it is still cheaper to have DHL deliver a HDD then sending info via the net. In short you don’t get your money’s worth.

case and point with TELKOM: http://www.telkom.co.za/products_ser..._dsl_cost.html

[jinxster]

Hey im not here to fight, I didnt mean you were wrong SoftDux, I actually agreed with you on speed issues just added something for other people.

With regard to your advertising spam, you guys brought up Afrihost @ R29 first.

Then I hear your comments about advertising markets and budgets, but er...

Have you ever thought to yourself... sometimes it is too good to be true... what is the scam.. is there a scam.

I am in no way insinuating a scam. However, when it comes to a company t/a another company name.........

Most large tenders automatically disqualify you. Let me try and explain without making anyone mad or being sued...

Lets call it.. mytaxname t/a myadvertisedcompany

mytaxname is what all my tax submissions get sent on... when I sell something I tell my customers myadvertisedname. This is perfectly fine however the trading part is the part that collects the VAT, so your VAT registration must have that name registered somewhere in it... go check out afrihost (wont mention their other company name) and it seems like there are 2 VAT numbers for the first bit and 0 for the second... hmmm so which is it...

The art of creating confusion to delay time...

Second... how long has this advertising budget been in play? it clearly states.. a limited number... seems like a very large limited number to me hey.. wonder how much money they got available in advertsing alone....

Now I am not saying Afrihost is scamming in any way. Im just going to tell you how you get some capital.

Basically... there is a ficticious number in companies called... Goodwill.

It is an asset, just like having a car / building / equipment / etc. However it is an intangible asset that cottons on to the market edge the company name has. (whats in a name). If you have a good name you can say.. i have an intangible asset of R1m... R2m, R200m. It happens. However if the company closed it doors and never traded again it would be sold @ R0. So, why make this asset, accounting people will tell you.. when you sell he company... great thats cool, why would you have one in your balance sheet when the company isnt being valued? Well, it beefs up your surety power at the bank and hence you get nice beeeeeg loan. R200m Goodwill = R150m overdraft facility for most banks, its an overdraft, not a long term loan. Overdraft for advertising... sorry that slipped out

The major price decreases started end of Dec 2009 mostly.. why was Afrihost sooo much cheaper sooo much earlier and they never tendered for any government contracts? Co incidence? When did the SEACOM cable get finished?

They get better rates... maybe... maybe not.. just saying its easy to make liquidity if you make intangible assets....

Technically if Afrihost have their real trading name on the invoice, you got yourself a valid VAT invoice. I havent seen any invoice from Afrihost ever, so I have no comment on if they are true or not just pointing out minor details that create millions.

Check SARS VAT vendor search, I dont find Afrihost or Afrihost Internet Services. Maybe I spelt it wrong...

[IanF]

Technically if Afrihost have their real trading name on the invoice, you got yourself a valid VAT invoice. I havent seen any invoice from Afrihost ever, so I have no comment on if they are true or not just pointing out minor details that create millions.

Check SARS VAT vendor search, I dont find Afrihost or Afrihost Internet Services. Maybe I spelt it wrong...

Jinxster
I checked the Afrihost invoice and their VAT number is registered.
So I am happy that I have a valid Tax invoice.

One thing they have to guard against is jumping to the wrong conclusions without all the facts. Afrihost have said they get their Internet from IS so they must get a better deal than you hence can sell it cheaper. Anyway they seem quite open and are quite active on MY Broadband, If you search there you will get a lot more info.

[jinxster]

Jinxster
I checked the Afrihost invoice and their VAT number is registered.
So I am happy that I have a valid Tax invoice.

One thing they have to guard against is jumping to the wrong conclusions without all the facts. Afrihost have said they get their Internet from IS so they must get a better deal than you hence can sell it cheaper. Anyway they seem quite open and are quite active on MY Broadband, If you search there you will get a lot more info.

Good on them then!

IS dont change their prices between customers (cept on tenders), customers buy bigger packages then aggregate services. Same as a retailer, you buy a million coke cans you will pay less per coke and hence you can be cheaper. But 6 months ago cheaper prices werent anywhere near R29/gb.

It could also be Afrihost thought why not take a hit now (ie sell at a loss) then when the prices come down they will have lots of customers. The only downside to that is, in ISP people like to keep their emails which locks them in to a provider, if they dont have that problem they move... but then its easy come... easy go. Someone else may say R25 then you lose all your good clients.

TBH I dont compete in the ISP price wars, Im not even registered on ISPA. I sell software which uses bandwidth and those clients I supply bandwidth to make life easier. I posted my selling price at the same time as posting my suppliers name, and you can go and buy from that supplier for less than me. Does that not say something? Im not out to steal your ISP customers, Im here to make specialise products work better. If you asked to VPN 4 sites on Afrihost, would they be able to help you at no additional cost? Telkom charge R700 odd pm for up to 20, what if you more than 20.. oops. IS charge er.. well significantly more. (ps: that 4 site VPN must include no configuration or hardware at the clients premises)

However end of the day, your just covering your own needs. If you compare simple services for what you need, its the same thing end of the day. Afrihost is fine, just still looks shady... I am curious to know which VAT number did they use?