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Thread: Mbeki: All is well.

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    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    Mbeki: All is well.

    It seems everything is under control according to Thabo Mbeki in an SABC interview last night. Here are some extracts (full story available from M&G here):

    On economic growth.
    He said the rate of economic growth had been underestimated.

    "For example, electricity supply did not keep up with the demand. We thought we had spare capacity, but now we have a shortage and we must address that."

    Mbeki said the government would have to invest more money in roads, ports, railways and electricity supply to keep up with economic growth.

    "It is a problem, but it is a good problem," he said.

    On personal wealth.
    He also mentioned the culture of personal wealth accumulation among South Africans as something that had to be fought.

    Due to the "evolution" of South Africa into a democratic society, a value system based on material things being a measure of a person's success had become entrenched, Mbeki said.

    "This is not a new thing ... this has been around for a long time."

    Mbeki said people must rediscover the principle of ubuntu.

    "We must rediscover what this value system means. You can't say you practice ubuntu, but then you steal your grandmother's pension money."

    On crime.
    On the pressing issue of crime, and the damage it was causing to the South Africa's image internationally, Mbeki admitted it was something of a concern, but said it was wrong to suggest crime in the country was uncontrollable.

    "There is crime but this does not mean it is out of control," he said.

    He blamed certain South Africans for not being "careful" on how they communicated the issue of crime, saying it was the way they communicated that created the perception crime was out of control in the country.

    On corruption.
    Asked about recent international media reports implicating a number of South Africans, including former defence minister Joe Modise, in a British probe on corruption between British arms companies and foreign government officials, Mbeki said the British government had not yet spoken to him about the matter.

    "I have heard about this but as far as I know the British government haven't raised this with us," Mbeki said.

    He maintained that South Africa's arms deal bidding process was "perfectly correct" and not affected by any corruption
    The trouble with opportunity is it normally comes dressed up as work.

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    just me duncan drennan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave A View Post
    He maintained that South Africa's arms deal bidding process was "perfectly correct" and not affected by any corruption
    WTF?
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    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    /Dave the cynic sneaks out of the closet.
    Quote Originally Posted by dsd View Post
    WTF?
    Denial - Africa's longest river.

    Clearly, allegations of corruption are only to be investigated by formal request of foreign governments.

    /Dave the cynic goes back to sleep.
    The trouble with opportunity is it normally comes dressed up as work.

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    just me duncan drennan's Avatar
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    Sometimes what worries me is that I think that some (many?) people might really believe that every was "perfectly correct" - much more disturbing than a pure denial.
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    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    Maybe Thabo has a plan to solve our perception of crime. Fresh on the heels of this
    He blamed certain South Africans for not being "careful" on how they communicated the issue of crime, saying it was the way they communicated that created the perception crime was out of control in the country.
    We have this (from M&G here)

    Several publications on Tuesday expressed fears that the current restructuring of the South African Police Service (SAPS) will severely limit the media's ability to access information.

    Up until the restructuring started, media outlets approached designated police officers at area level. However, with the elimination of the area level, media organisations have been told to contact designated officers at a provincial level.

    Regi Khumalo, news editor of the Witness newspaper in Pietermaritzburg, said his newspaper had had "no official confirmation" of the restructuring or clarity on how it would affect the media's ability to access information.

    "Indications are that things are going to be centralised. With 183 police stations in the province and 45 in the Midlands alone, how are they [at a provincial level] going to cope?

    "My fear is that they are going to be more reactive than proactive. Already there is a ban on crime statistics. My greatest fear is that this will lead to a media blackout. It will add to our ignorance of what is really happening in our backyard. The worry is that this is going to make it difficult for us to access information, by hampering our watchdog mandate."
    The trouble with opportunity is it normally comes dressed up as work.

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    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    More on the arms deal.

    A nice quick summary of the arms deal scandal. If you follow the link to the IOL page it came from, they have a series of links to stories as they broke along the way.
    In 1998 the department of defence announced that South Africa was going to spend R29,8-billion on arms.
    Since that report the deal has been marred by scandal. In 1999 Independent Democrats leader Patricia De Lille blew the whistle on possible irregularities and pointed fingers at senior ANC members whom she claimed had benefited from the controversial deal.

    Then auditor-general Shauket Fakie exonerating the government of any misconduct without a thorough investigation. In January 2000 President Thabo Mbeki announced that there was no prima facie evidence against anyone in government pertaining to the arms deal.

    Since then a number of senior politicians have been implicated.

    Eight years since the scandal first erupted the South African government finds itself under renewed pressure by British and German investigators to step up the investigation.
    from IOL here
    The trouble with opportunity is it normally comes dressed up as work.

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    just me duncan drennan's Avatar
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    I'm not sure that I agree with Clive Simpkins thoughts posted on MoneyWeb, but he does raise some interesting points.

    Luminaries in the values evolution field, like the late Professor Clare Graves, Professor Don Beck and others, have proven that values can be and often are distorted when there’s oppression. They typically revert to a lower, more self-centred, self-preservation orientated level of functioning. But in an environment of ‘freedom’ the intrinsic, actual values will have the luxury of coming to the fore. That gives the lie to the President’s assertion.

    Can President Mbeki legitimately claim that colonialism and apartheid influences (for which read ‘nasty white people’) are responsible for the rampant materialism, greed, selfishness and lack of concern for the poor and downtrodden in (primarily, given the demographics) black South African culture? I think not. He’s fallen into the same trap as many cultural, ethnic or religious groups. They will continue to blame for millennia, not their own paucity of good values, work ethic, morals, innovation or energy, but the legacy of their past. Which means I should be able to take refuge behind and excuse any unacceptable behaviour on my part because I had an alcoholic father. That’s plain stupid. Then so is President Mbeki’s thesis.

    Read the full article "President Mbeki has values bull by the udder" by Clive Simpkins
    So what do you think? Is Mbeki purely a denialist (is there such a word?) who truly believes what he is saying, OR is it all a shrewd political move to shift people's focus away from the internal problems in the ANC?
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    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    How you are "socialised" does have an impact. But that's not the final say on how you turn out.

    A big subject - I don't think this thread is going to die in a hurry.
    The trouble with opportunity is it normally comes dressed up as work.

  9. #9
    just me duncan drennan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave A View Post
    He maintained that South Africa's arms deal bidding process was "perfectly correct" and not affected by any corruption
    It seems that more names, more links, and more implications are surfacing in the latest round of the arms deal scandal. I'm starting to wonder how high this really goes...

    Details emerging from the German corruption probe into defence and steel conglomerate ThyssenKrupp have thrown dramatic new light on two men named in the very first allegations concerning the South African arms deal.

    One is Shamin "Chippy" Shaik, former chief of acquisitions for the Defence Department, who came under suspicion almost from the start because of his brother Schabir's involvement in the arms deal.

    The other is Tony Georgiadis, who has remained largely in the shadows despite being mentioned in the infamous "De Lille dossier", a memorandum drawn up by concerned African National Congress (ANC) intelligence operatives and released through Patricia de Lille in September 1999.
    ________________

    The names most often mentioned as Georgiadis's new local connections include Mbeki, Maduna (former minister of minerals and energy and of justice), his wife, Nompumelelo Maduna (in the oil trade herself), Deputy President Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka (who succeeded Maduna at minerals and energy), and her husband, Bulelani Ngcuka, the former prosecutions head.

    Full story, "Mbeki, Chippy and the Greek lobbyist" on M&G Online
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