Solar challenges

[Sparks]

Would be interested to know what the demands where made and what you deem not be in contravention

He gave a whole list. No bridges in the DB smaller than 16mm. 2.5mm cable may not be protected by 25A CB. The motivation was that the socket outlet is only rated at 16A, yet it was insisted on that 20A CBs' be used. Cables in the roof had to have pieces of conduit secured to all the trusses to protect cables where they went over them, despite such occurrences not being where anyone would normally walk in the roofspace thus, no undue exposure to damage. A number of similar demands were made which my poor memory does not recall offhand. I concentrated more on just doing what was asked and I was being paid for.

[skatingsparks]

This the thing with the CoC story. You can't MAKE someone pay for a CoC.
Or MAKE them pay for work to make it compliant.

Yet if I'm the last one to touch a DB it's my fault ����.

Still not entirely sure where we stand.
We did a 12kw Sunsynk install on a, I'd guess, R6000000 house.

There was a CoC, which didn't look bad and we did a few basic tests before starting (Earth fault loop, visual checks etc)

Install was done over 3 days, commissioned - no worries.
Start doing proper testing and find a shit show (no earth readings etc). Then twist and tape special hidden.
Spent another 3 days fixing bits and pieces to get it to point where is could be signed off but eventually enough was enough.

Gave the customer a report on what we had done and other things that needed attention but they weren't interested (in paying for additional works needed) and we refused to issue the CoC.

They still paid for the solar install but they don't have a CoC from us. Like I said - can only advise, can't make them have the work done.

[Sparks]

This the thing with the CoC story. You can't MAKE someone pay for a CoC.
Or MAKE them pay for work to make it compliant.

Yet if I'm the last one to touch a DB it's my fault ����.

Still not entirely sure where we stand.
We did a 12kw Sunsynk install on a, I'd guess, R6000000 house.

There was a CoC, which didn't look bad and we did a few basic tests before starting (Earth fault loop, visual checks etc)

Install was done over 3 days, commissioned - no worries.
Start doing proper testing and find a shit show (no earth readings etc). Then twist and tape special hidden.
Spent another 3 days fixing bits and pieces to get it to point where is could be signed off but eventually enough was enough.

Gave the customer a report on what we had done and other things that needed attention but they weren't interested (in paying for additional works needed) and we refused to issue the CoC.

They still paid for the solar install but they don't have a CoC from us. Like I said - can only advise, can't make them have the work done.

I am disgusted by the fact that people are being charged for a COC for new work. A COC cost a few rand. The contractor is already being paid to do the work to spec, he is obligated by SANS to certify his work, that it is in accordance with SANS requirements. Why must the client pay for the COC. The contractor is contracted and paid to do the job as per SANS. Should a contractor be contracted to certify an existing installation it is another story. I consider him then to be entitled to charge for his time and knowledge accordingly but, the actual COC? That is ridiculous, a total abuse of power to milk the client in my opinion.

[Isetech]

There is a reason why there are are different curve breakers, to compensate for inrush current caused by motor staring or things like magnetic tables.

There is no reason a 25 amp breaker should be used in place of a 20 amp, I have noticed aircon people use 25 amp breakers, because like the solar installers they dont have an electrical background and the 1 week electrical training does'nt teach them the difference between a restive load and inductive load.

From my experience it looks like electricians are not taught much about electricity either, if you really want to see how bad it has got, go do a refresher course...... eeeeish.

[GCE]

He gave a whole list. No bridges in the DB smaller than 16mm. 2.5mm cable may not be protected by 25A CB. The motivation was that the socket outlet is only rated at 16A, yet it was insisted on that 20A CBs' be used. Cables in the roof had to have pieces of conduit secured to all the trusses to protect cables where they went over them, despite such occurrences not being where anyone would normally walk in the roofspace thus, no undue exposure to damage. A number of similar demands were made which my poor memory does not recall offhand. I concentrated more on just doing what was asked and I was being paid for.

You made a classic school boy error - You need to be able to back up the talk and then you can walk it

Some bridges were 2,5sqmm between breakers

SANS 10142-1 ed 3.1 - Clause 6.15.3 - If the CB is greater than 20Amp then each socket needs to be protected - You get the socket with a D/pole CB mounted on the socket - Way quicker and cheaper to change the 25amp to 20amp

6.15.3 Single-phase circuits that only supply socket-outlets rated
at 16 A
Single-phase circuits that only supply socket-outlets rated at not more than
16 A shall
a) have overcurrent protection,
b) use conductors that are rated at not less than 16 A, and
c) if the circuit protection is rated at more than 20 A, use only protected
socket-outlets, with as far as is practicable, discrimination between the
protective devices for the circuit and the protective devices associated with
the socket-outlets. The protective device of a protected socket-outlet shall,
1) have a fixed rated current that does not exceed the rating of the socketoutlet,
2) be mounted next to the socket-outlet that it protects,
3) provide protection against overload currents,
4) provide protection against short-circuit currents, unless short-circuit
protection is provided by a separate device, for example, on the
distribution board,
5) if it needs the protection of a back-up short-circuit device, be marked
with the required or maximum rating of the back-up device,
6) if it protects more than one socket-outlet, be so installed that all the
socket-outlets are connected in parallel, have the same rated current,
and are mounted next to the device, and
7) if it is a circuit-breaker, comply with the requirements of 6.8.2

With regards to pieces of conduits - now where was that stated - what was stated that T&E running over trusses and can be damaged
The T&E looked like spaghetti at the trapdoor and was a struggle to prevent damage when climbing into the roof space

6.4.3.1 To avoid damage to the sheath of a cable, only appropriate cleats,
saddles and clamps shall be used to fix a cable.
6.4.6.3 Unarmoured multicore cables need not be fixed in position in places
such as in roof spaces above ceilings and where the cables are unlikely to be
disturbed.

Those units are in an upmarket complex and brand new - The workmanship was horrendous with twisted joints in roof space and no boxes , T&E entering 4x4 boxes without glands - No ELU on geyser - no earth on geyser and earth wires twisted together in geyser compartment , solar geyser systems bypassed , DC fuse holders mounted open on wooden trusses for the PV geyser system- PV wires pushed under tiles and through weather membrane causing damage to membrane and tiles lying on PV wires , AC rated fuse holders and CB on DC PV wiring and battery circuits.AC and DC wiring in the same conduit and trunking
Part of PV panel structure not fastened to roof structure
Incorrectly label D/Boards
Decorative ceiling fan fed from geyser isolator
This was on a visual inspection without opening anything as no covers inc geyser covers where actually fastened

[Sparks]

I have no idea where you refer to but the installation I worked on did not have any 2.5mm bridges. Regarding the 25-20A breakers, some aircons require more than 20A to start whereafter their consumption drops. The motivation of providing 16A socket outlets is ridiculous. 4x6A loads is 24A, well within the capabillity of a 2.5mm cable. The other items you mention were also not at the complex where I worked.

[GCE]

Regarding the 25-20A breakers, some aircons require more than 20A to start whereafter their consumption drops. The motivation of providing 16A socket outlets is ridiculous. 4x6A loads is 24A, well within the capabillity of a 2.5mm cable. .

It was not motivation that I was providing - It is the regulations and cannot be changed because you feel differently - If a 25Amp CB is on a socket circuit you cannot sign the COC - Clause 6.15.3 is pretty clear

[Isetech]

A few interesting note when you apply to register your SSEG.

If you apply for a zero grid export.

The installation shall comply with NRS 097 and SANS 10142

The max battery charging a capacity from the grid should not exceed 25% (15a for a 60 amp supply).

NRS 097-2-1:2023

5.7 Isolation

5.7.2 The disconnecting device shall be a ... a four pole for three phase star connected SSEG.

Some might be asking how do you know if the inverter is delta or star connected


The question many will be asking, does a 4 pole changeover switch qualify for this requirements, and are installers using 4 pole isolators or changeover switches?