Lithium batteries

[Isetech]

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that lithium batteries are not dangerous and cant burn down your house, I am trying to understand how dangerous they are and who should be installing them.

If solar industry is punting to allow single phase testers or an IE to test and sign off a lithium battery installation, they can be that dangerous.

If they are highly explosive and could catch on fire and burn down your house, then only an MIE should be allowed to install and sign off the installation as reasonably safe ?

There should be a set of regulations specific to each lithium battery type, the safe installation guidelines, precautions, barrier sand any otehr relevant details to create a safe installation.

If you are one of those people trying scare the public about the dangers of these lithium batteries and cutting and pasting old irrelevant documentation, best you get your facts straight and produce documentation that is relevant to that specific type of lithium battery and the dangers they pose to the public, be it standing exposed on a shelf in a shop where anyone has access to the power button, or under your stairwell in your house (as displayed by the manufactures home page... by the way I am told I should follow the manufacturers requirements... if they have it displayed on their web page, then why cant I do it in my house? ).

It is time to stop the bullshyte and get the facts right, we are wasting the publics money, I know people in SA have more money than they need, but it doesnt give us the right to rip them off 'just because we cant get out regulations and facts correct.

[GCE]

The smaller 7 and 18 amp/hr market is also being flooded with lithium batteries, offering drop in replacements, some even offering fast charger to speed up charging times in gates, electric fence sand alarm systems.

I have got caught in the hype, went out and replaced all my customers batteries with the new better, faster, better backup times due to the lower DOD capabilities and I paying school fees.

Let this be a warning, dont rush out and throw your old FLA battery, until this technology improves.

Lithium phosphate batteries are temperature sensitive and the BMS system will shutdown if the temperature rises or drops below spec - Most have settings that they will operate in within +/- 0 to 50 Degrees
A gate motor is often located outside in the sun and the temperature inside the gate motor enclosure can rise to between 15 and 35 degrees higher than ambient temp and there is no breeze cooling them off .
Probable the main reason that they fail in gate motors

[Isetech]

It also has to do with the C rating of the battery. the gate motor could pull more than the battery discharge current.

Lithium phosphate batteries are temperature sensitive and the BMS system will shutdown if the temperature rises or drops below spec - Most have settings that they will operate in within +/- 0 to 50 Degrees
A gate motor is often located outside in the sun and the temperature inside the gate motor enclosure can rise to between 15 and 35 degrees higher than ambient temp and there is no breeze cooling them off .
Probable the main reason that they fail in gate motors

[Isetech]

Education.

Nothing like spending time getting educated on a topic that you can see by the comments in most social media platforms, people have very limited knowledge including myself.

[Isetech]

Lets see what you would consider before rushing out and "investing" in an expensive lithium battery.

The question you should ask yourself is what certification does the battery manufacturer offer, do the certifications comply with the SA standards?

What protection does the battery offer, at a cell level, the type of BMS, fuse protection and circuit breakers ?

Do they offer an operating manual for the installer, with warnings, safe installation and operation instructions ?

Do they have a program in place for the safe disposal of the batteries or cells ?

[Isetech]

Something to point out, "IT IS NOT THE ELCTRICIAN OR INSTALLERS RESPONSIBLITY TO PROVIDE SAFETY INFORMATION ABOUT A PRODUCT" what i mean by this comment, you as the electrician or installer dont have to be a design engineer, and understand ever little detail about the battery, the supplier must provide all the risks, safety documentation and notices required for their product. It is then your responsibility to apply the information provided by the supplier.

This is where the suppliers are falling short, where they say you must adhere to the regulations of your country. Yes I agree you must make sure you install as per the suppliers recommendation and regulations, however the SUPPLIER of the battery or equipment must provide all the relevant hazards, dangers, notices required to create a safe installation.

Which takes us back to design, what level is an engineer required ?

This is something that everyone seems to be dodging, at what point does the installation require an engineer to design and inspect the installation ?

At what point does the gasses released from a lithium battery become a problem ?

As most suppliers will tell you that they supply a battery which should be considered safe, why because they have taken all the safety measures into account to reduce the risk of a fire to the absolute minimum , provided you as the installer, read the documentation and apply it as required.

[Isetech]

Something to consider, we understand the lithium battery, installed in the correct working environment should be a safe piece of equipment, however due to lack of knowledge, skills and experience on the installers side, they can become extremely dangerous.

So the solution, either change who can install and certify the installation or add a new field to the industry.

How do we achieve this, simple, only MIE's can sign off the installation, which I dont agree with, why because most MIE's might have gone to tech studied, passed a few tests but may not keep up to date with current technology.

How do we solve this issue, you create a separate field, like gas and electric fence, Solar installer, who must have the correct qualifications, skills and experience to carry out solar installations.

The part which is missing and I am sur eventually will become a rule, credits, you need to gain credits to keep your approval, dont keep up to date with the latest technology, your license is suspended and if not updated within 3 years, you are required to start at the beginning.

[Isetech]

A question: Please attach a link to support your comment.

How many lithium batteries have caught on fire since 2022 ?

I dont want to know how many solar systems have caught on fire, and the battery then burnt, I want to know how many LITHIUM BATTERIES, Lifepo4 specific have caused the fire.

I have heard of many solar systems, but cannot support my comment with facts.

What I have seen is a lot of home made DC so called combiner boxes with burnt components, but not one lithium battery used for a solar installation.

I saw an article the other with a comment that every 6 fires are solar related, anyone have the details about these fires.

[Isetech]

No matter what field you work in, there is phase which is the most important factor to be noted "under normal operating conditions".

What this means, no matter what you are doing you need to apply this phrase, is the lithium battery dangerous "under normal operating conditions". If this answer is yes, then you doing something wrong and need to fix it ASAP.

IF you cant answer the question, you shouldn't be installing lithium batteries. At this point in time, I dont know of one person who can answer this question, I know a lot of very smart, skilled experienced people in the elctrical industry.

Should I be installing lithium batteries, not really, however, in saying that, every single installation that I have completed todate, there has been a lot of time spent analyzing the location before the installation.

The job I am currently busy with has been the most educational, I have learnt more from this installation than all the completed installs put together.

From the roof to the installation location to the earth rod required in the ground, everyday we learn something new.

[Isetech]

There are 1 thing that keeps popping up every time there is a discussion about solar, inverter or batteries... take a wild guess ... yip you are 100% correct, the blame is always pointed at the installer.

Nobody wants to take the blame, its easier just to point at someone else, yet everyone is quite happy to unload their products onto anyone willing to toss a few rand at them, in this case a couple hundred thousand rand.

The way I see it, then maybe we should turn it around and put restrictions on who can purchase solar products, then you will see how quickly everyone will attempt to educate the installers