New SANS regs in the pipeline

[HealthyDozen]

Spot on - the regs do need simplification and consolidation.

I have seen multiple horrific inverter/battery/PV installations by licensed electricians for a solar rental company, where the DB board is a dog's breakfast with AC and DC wires running long distances in the same trunking, AC MCBs used for DC circuits, no labelling, no warning signs, switches for essential and non-essential circuits mixed on the same rail, and plenty other bad and non-compliant practices. Just a wall of switches and stuff and the residential consumer wouldn't know what to do in an emergency. And one electrician told me he does not own a copy of SANS 10142 and sees no reason to buy one either. A frustrating reality in South Africa, some of just a pure survival measure.

So perhaps these documents and regulations should be made freely available (as in free, not R1300) with quarterly updates so that even the DIY guys and unregistered installers can learn to do safer installations. The idea may be controversial, but the DIY guys and unregistered installers cannot be stopped, and it is not endorsing what they do. And some of their work is absolutely superb too. They just CAN NOT be stopped, any more than SAPS can stop crime or enforce the ample laws that SA already has.

So perhaps give everyone ample information to learn how not to kill themselves or others, including cheat sheets with a list of all the typical bad practices, and set up a framework for oversight by licensed electricians. I do not think this will eat into the income of licenses electricians doing proper installations, especially in three-phase and large industrial/commercial/retail environments. And some of them may even become licensed electricians – that has to be a good thing. I’m sure the ECA and some electricians will have a stroke reading this, but unusual times need unconventional solutions…

I believe that the lull in load shedding is temporary as there is no underlying improvement in the deteriorating base load generation, transmission and distribution infrastructures. So many municipalities are bankrupt with few/no spare transformers and switchgear. Transmission inadequacies for N Cape IPP projects to connect to the grid. Koeberg 2 due for long term shutdown. Significant parts of Kusile and Medupi still offline. And when they fix those there's the long list of older, ailing coal-fired stations that are approaching decommissioning. And so many unknowns - like how much of the recent intense load shedding was linked to political and wage negotiation (extortion) issues? And what synthetic pressures will emerge leading up to the May 2024 elections – more or fewer blackouts?

I think that up until now the primary reason for battery backup and solar installations in residential, industrial and other commercial has been to alleviate inconvenience and business/lifestyle disruption. But as the tariffs inevitably increase, the motivation will change to cost saving as it has in other parts of the world. People with only battery backup will add PV and a feed-back meter and change to pre-paid to save money and perhaps even make some back (if their inverter is capable and permitted to be grid-tied). Anyone who installed a proper inverter and battery (say 5-10 kVA, with 10-20 kWh of battery) without PV has already written this off as a sunk cost - they knew it was never going to save money and it was done out of frustration. The time is right for these to add PV, save money and recover their investment too.

Some spreadsheet modelling shows that adding PV to these battery backups for 70-80% of a households' total electricity bill can be paid off in as little as two years (just the PV additions), depending on the roof geometry and usage patterns. That's a very short period until one starts saving a few grand a month. It's also not difficult to get to 100% (roof geometry permitting) but remain on pre-paid (to cull the monthly service fees) just-in-case...

Gauteng proposes to train 6,000 “solar installers”, whatever that means. I say give anyone who’s willing to to learn all the documentation possible so that they can learn how to do it properly. Lack of education is not solved by monetising it in South Africa.

[Derlyn]

Couldn't agree with you more, however, both you and I know that the chances of this happening are very close to zero.

Yep, the unregistered PV installation gang is extremely busy here in our valley. It also doesn't help that there's a single phase tester, who for a few bucks, fills in a coc for them. A situation that will continue forever, due to NO control. Unfortunately, the clients having these systems installed are none the wiser.

I, for one, cannot see the free for all situation ending in the foreseeable future and your suggestion of making the rules and regulations more freely available will certainly go a long way to making the installations more compliant.

[Dave A]

Unfortunately, the clients having these systems installed are none the wiser.

Unfortunately I have found the majority of clients are well aware that they are not fully complying with requirements in this part of the country. However, the attitude is "Everyone else around me is doing the same thing, so that's OK."

So perhaps these documents and regulations should be made freely available (as in free, not R1300) with quarterly updates so that even the DIY guys and unregistered installers can learn to do safer installations. The idea may be controversial, but the DIY guys and unregistered installers cannot be stopped, and it is not endorsing what they do. And some of their work is absolutely superb too. They just CAN NOT be stopped, any more than SAPS can stop crime or enforce the ample laws that SA already has.

So perhaps give everyone ample information to learn how not to kill themselves or others, including cheat sheets with a list of all the typical bad practices, and set up a framework for oversight by licensed electricians.

My theory is you need to focus on education before regulation if you really want to uplift an industry's standard. So I support the underlying principle.

Unfortunately I have heard that SANS 10142-1 is SABS's no.1 seller...
Good luck getting them to abandon that income stream.

To me in sounds like you are all wanting to buy an extra SANS reg every year or so when they change anything in
SANS10142-1

If SABS won't publish the insert pages for updates, do we have a choice?
To my mind, staying abreast of the updates and having the latest version of the Standard available is non-negotiable for the electrical contractor that wants to be taken seriously.

[Isetech]

Yip, they know, the budget rules and cash is king. I get calls at least once a week for people who want me to sigh off installtion done by a friend ro the nighbour who has a mate who is a green card holder or just has some experience in fitting solar systems.

Education and regualation, but there is a catch to this, people need to understand what they are reading and put it into context. I have found people have no idea why they are using that specific code, they just saw it posted on social media telling everyone that it is the law.

Until we have a system to manage COC's being issued, random checks done and some form of punishment, nothing is going to change.

What I wowould like to see is more working groups which include a few smart people who actaully work on site or have hands on working experience, a few electrical engineers and just people with a little common sense. I have found that a lot of the smart people read the haze of bullshyte on social media, but tend to keep their wisdom to themselves, in fear of being ridiculed by the fools.

I wish more smart people would engage and share their wisdom and also point out the bullshyte.

Unfortunately I have found the majority of clients are well aware that they are not fully complying with requirements in this part of the country. However, the attitude is "Everyone else around me is doing the same thing, so that's OK."



My theory is you need to focus on education before regulation if you really want to uplift an industry's standard. So I support the underlying principle.

Unfortunately I have heard that SANS 10142-1 is SABS's no.1 seller...
Good luck getting them to abandon that income stream.


If SABS won't publish the insert pages for updates, do we have a choice?
To my mind, staying abreast of the updates and having the latest version of the Standard available is non-negotiable for the electrical contractor that wants to be taken seriously.

[GCE]

Unfortunately I have found the majority of clients are well aware that they are not fully complying with requirements in this part of the country. However, the attitude is "Everyone else around me is doing the same thing, so that's OK."




If SABS won't publish the insert pages for updates, do we have a choice?
To my mind, staying abreast of the updates and having the latest version of the Standard available is non-negotiable for the electrical contractor that wants to be taken seriously.

Took me out of context and my explanation was lacking

If there is/was a SANS 10142-1-2 it is so closely related to SANS 10142-1 that anytime anything is changed in part 1 then part 2 would also need to change - We would be buying 2 books every year instead of one

[GCE]

NERSA may not be a standard but are generally written into Utility's bylaws which under OHSA and SANS10142-1 state that we need to adhere to bylaws - So in a round about way we need to comply
Have pasted below for ease of use

Further to teh last upload - There is a later edition of 097-2-3 pasted below

[Isetech]

If the SANS 10142 regs are not the only reference point for the wiring standards there should be a guideline to follow, identifying all the regs which should be adhered to when doing an "electrical installation" ... "battery installations" ... backup system installations. Yes I know there are refences to other regulations, but you need to understand the level of competence we are dealing with.

It is bad enough trying to get people to follow 1 set of rules and interpret them the same. Some would refer to as grey areas.

I will give you an expample, if you come to this forum, some people will tell you counting circuits by wires is the correct way to do it, if you go an ECA course (which you pay for by the way), the lecturer will tell you that you count circuits by circuit breakers, so what is the correct answer, the only way to answer that question is to put it out to an open disccusion, gather the responses and make a descion based on the responses. Then put a proposal forward to get the reg amended.


If you come to this forum and discuss earthing and you do an ECA course, the respnse will be different, some will say everything must be earthed and bonded and elsewhere, stuff out of arms reach doesnt need to be earthed, lets use the discussion from last night, downlights where mentioned.

Now I hear people talking about the SANS regs falling away and using IEC standards, will this happen, you just have to look at equipment being sold in SA to realise the SABS is not longer a standard used to control items sold in SA, now they say so long as the product has some form of quality control or standard.

What we have in this country at the moment are various groups of people who believe their interpretation of the regs are correct and they stick to them, is it a bad thing, well only a court case would prove otherwise, is there going to be a court case anytime soon, lets wait and see, you just have to look at social pictures and comments to realise, it arent gonna happen anytime soon.

The sad part about all this confusion, the only people loosing at the moment is ... yip you right ... the end user.

Another thing I have come to realise is the cutting and posting one clause or part of one regulation, just creates more confusion, unless those 2 or lines are put into context, discussed and interpreted the same, otherwsie it is realy just 2/3 lines of information, which might not be relavant to the discussion, unless all the codes from all the different books and regulations are referenced. Lithium batteries are a good example.

How are we going to solve this massive problem, to start with, there needs to be a person appointe dto take control, then group discussion to make sure the regs are interpreted the same then as we did in the past, release updates to the regs as the items are discussed and finalised. It 2023, you dont need to wait 2 years to release updates.

The first question is going to be who has the correct qualifications, expereince and authourity to take on a position of such magnitude ?

My understanding is that the DOL are responsible for the regs, could the DOL handle such a huge technical task ?

[Isetech]

Should we work to IEC, NRS standards or SANS standards, there should be one standard that is applicable for electrical installations. If the government wants us to use SANS, then the metros and everyone else should use the same standard applicable for SA as a whole.

The electrical industry should be controlled and policed by the same people. If the resposiblity is going to be left for private companies to control, that is going to make it even more interesting.

The big question is how long will the DOL be able to maintain control over the industry, and how long is SANS going to be guide to electrical standards ?

[Derlyn]

If you come to this forum and discuss earthing and you do an ECA course, the respnse will be different, some will say everything must be earthed and bonded and elsewhere, stuff out of arms reach doesnt need to be earthed,

If someone is of the opinion that appliances out of arms reach needn't be earthed, the quickest way to correct them is to ask if the geyser in the attic is out of arms reach.
That usually settles that one quickly.

If in doubt, always think safety. That's my motto and that's the reason we have SANS.

[GCE]

If the SANS 10142 regs are not the only reference point for the wiring standards there should be a guideline to follow, identifying all the regs which should be adhered to when doing an "electrical installation" ... "battery installations" ... backup system installations. Yes I know there are refences to other regulations, but you need to understand the level of competence we are dealing with.

It is bad enough trying to get people to follow 1 set of rules and interpret them the same. Some would refer to as grey areas.

I will give you an expample, if you come to this forum, some people will tell you counting circuits by wires is the correct way to do it, if you go an ECA course (which you pay for by the way), the lecturer will tell you that you count circuits by circuit breakers, so what is the correct answer, the only way to answer that question is to put it out to an open disccusion, gather the responses and make a descion based on the responses. Then put a proposal forward to get the reg amended.

You are creating the confusion - ECA will teach count circuit not breakers - If you have knowledge of it being otherwise let me know when and who and I will sort it for future

If you come to this forum and discuss earthing and you do an ECA course, the respnse will be different, some will say everything must be earthed and bonded and elsewhere, stuff out of arms reach doesnt need to be earthed, lets use the discussion from last night, downlights where mentioned.

It is clearly stated in 6.12.3.2 e that all earth terminals shall be earthed - Again don't believe ECA teach otherwise

Now I hear people talking about the SANS regs falling away and using IEC standards, will this happen, you just have to look at equipment being sold in SA to realise the SABS is not longer a standard used to control items sold in SA, now they say so long as the product has some form of quality control or standard.

Don't confuse talk with fact

The first question is going to be who has the correct qualifications, expereince and authourity to take on a position of such magnitude ?

My understanding is that the DOL are responsible for the regs, could the DOL handle such a huge technical task ?

It is DOL job to have the final say - It is also a committee driven system with all role players in the industry that sit around that table - ECA being one that will take member input to the table