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Thread: Solar/inverter/batteries installation challenges

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    Solar/inverter/batteries installation challenges

    Its been a couple of years of research and dabbling in the solar industry.

    After many requests to provide the service and a few badly designed installations on sites where we work, We final got around to taking on our first complete system.

    The first one took a while (3 days) to lay out, install and connect and now we down to a day per installation. It takes longer to prep the equipment in the workshop than it does to install and connect.

    At the rate this industry is growing, I am glad we took the time to invest in it.

    The first challenge is stock availability, unless you have a few million to outlay to order, purchase and wait for it to arrive, you going to be a stranded with teams eating up your profit margin. You need to plan order and make sure the stock is ready for the installation. This affects the profit margin because I find the wholesaler tells you no stock, but they can get at an inflated price. Then there is the people who are buying up as much stock as possible to create the shortage then sell it at an inflated price. You will hear some BS about small margins. You need to note that the margins might be small, but considering the price nobody is missing a lunch date. 2 more of these solar installations and I have might have to register with vat again . Look at it this way, a double socket outlet you buy for R39.00 marked up R25 (R48.75) % is chump change compared to 5 % markup on R140k for small solar installation. You need to sell a lot of socket outlets to make a few bob, compared to a 1 solar installation.

    Shop around, the prices are dropping as the competition increases, every man and his cousin is becoming a solar expert and supplier, all the large wholesalers have caught onto the trend. There is even money in offering training, get 20 people in on a Saturday @R1000 a pop, that's a quick R20k for beers

    The next challenge is quoting and load profiles, people talk about load profiles and audits and all that stuff, but in reality, only one thing counts, the budget. Dont waste your time and money buying expensive test equipment to do load profiles. 99% of the installation I have dealt with, were done on budget, not load requirements.

    Then we move onto splitting DB's. You split the DB into essential and non essential parts, but nobody thinks to change the socket outlets to blue socket (UPS/ essential). The home executive arrives, switches on the TV to watch their favourite soapie, runs an extension cord for the iron and finds the tumble drier, washing machine and dishwasher will not work, so another extension from one TV plug. Load shedding kicks in 10 minutes later and your entire system goes into overload-fault or drains the battery in 6 minutes.

    Then you have the house which would fail a test report already at the main DB, not forgetting all the lights with no earth wires or fans or geyser not connected to the ELU. After a quick split and shuffle for the essential and non essential in the main DB. You could do what most would do, just dont fit an ELU and exclude the electrical installation from your test report/COC . Everyone else is doing it why cant you, considering there is no policing the gamble would be in your favour, and even if you do get caught, you just nod and send a team to site and destroy as much of the customers personal belongings and you will be thrown off site before lunch and they will get someone else to fix your mess at their own cost . Trust me it happens often, there are a few dodgey contractors using certain branding as a false pretence that their workmanship is safe and up to spec. I deal with it literally on a weekly basis.

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    Then we move onto the roof, this is something that is going to cause more headaches than they are worth.

    Old damaged tiles on the roof.

    Rotten beams and batons.

    No plastic under the tiles.

    Shading on the roof, yes you could cut down all the trees, thats going to cost another R10K and add extra heat to your home, which means you gonana need more aircons, this is when it is a good time to take a breathe and think a little about all the extra cost and power requirements.

    If I had my way every panel installation would be either be a free standing awning/entertainment area or an awning attached to the house. Not only do you create additional shaded areas, you dont interfere with the main roof structure or waterproofing.

    You blowing R150k, why not add a R20 for a structure to support the panels.

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    Another challenge is the CT coil, I see most installers just install cat 5 or 6 cable. Firstly it will fail a test report if it is installed with electrical cables and secondly the CT have a multi strand wire compared to the cat cables, then lastly, at half the price a person can install a screened multi core cable with the correct voltage ratings.

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    Platinum Member Derlyn's Avatar
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    I'm actually glad that I decided not to get involved in the solar scene. I've had to do with many clients who are not happy with the systems installed.

    I'm still trying to fathom out if it's a case of them being promised too much by the installers or whether it's a case of their own expectations being unrealistic.

    On my side I've pushed 12 Volt lighting systems as I have at home and it's going well with a reasonably full order book.
    Simple system with 1 or 2 100W panels feeding either 1 or 2 100A/h batteries through a controller and 12volt led lighting throughout. This fits most peoples budget and should they really need to watch tv I advise them to buy a plug and play invertor from Ellies.

    Here in our valley, people who can afford 150 to 200k on a system are few and far between. I let the other guys fight amongst themselves for that sector of business while I carry on with the simple stuff and I never need any headache pills.

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    One of the issues is the Lead Acid battery as the source of energy.
    People do not understand the requirements for a lead acid battery charging process.
    I have experimented for years with different methods of using lead acid in solar applications, and I have found that after 200 cycles, the amount of charge the batteries hold starts to degrade.

    Did the same experiment with Lithium, in the same places, and over 3 years now, and still going strong.

    I have now taken the attitude, that I WILL NOT SUPPLY LEAD ACID BATTERIES for any solar based system, or system that is used for regular back up power such as with load shedding.
    Customers do not want to hear the prior warnings, and are very quick to denigrate you and your equipment when it follows your warnings.
    Victor - Knowledge is a blessing or a curse, your current circumstances make you decide!
    Solar pumping, Solar Geyser & Solar Security lighting solutions - www.microsolve.co.za

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    Quote Originally Posted by Justloadit View Post
    One of the issues is the Lead Acid battery as the source of energy.
    People do not understand the requirements for a lead acid battery charging process.
    I have experimented for years with different methods of using lead acid in solar applications, and I have found that after 200 cycles, the amount of charge the batteries hold starts to degrade.

    Did the same experiment with Lithium, in the same places, and over 3 years now, and still going strong.

    I have now taken the attitude, that I WILL NOT SUPPLY LEAD ACID BATTERIES for any solar based system, or system that is used for regular back up power such as with load shedding.
    Customers do not want to hear the prior warnings, and are very quick to denigrate you and your equipment when it follows your warnings.
    @ Justloadit

    When you speak, I listen. You are of course 100% correct regarding the lead acid versus lithium.

    A couple of things to consider. The little simple systems that I'm installing are meant for lighting only.
    Lights are usually only used at night and then very seldom for the whole night. It's also seldom that more than half of the lights are on simultaneously.
    It really is amazing how peoples habits change when they know that the power that they use for lights must be put back into the batteries otherwise they gonna be without lights, so they use it sparingly.

    Most of the installations I've done consist of a maximum of 80 Watts. Most are in informal settlements where a large percentage of people are not connected to the grid.

    The size of batteries I'm using are actually overrated for the application, so the batteries do not discharge as much as they would have, per cycle, had I used smaller batteries. I think this contributes to the life of the batteries being extended somewhat and also the fact that no load is being drawn during the day. So far , so good.

    Now for the most important part. The people I'm helping, to put a bit of light into their lives, are not well off and the lithium batteries are just too expensive for them. Even deep cycle FLA batteries are out of many peoples reach, but we make a plan with recons and they are happy.

    My clients all know that the harder you gonna make them batteries work, the quicker they gonna die.

    Yep, a different market, but one that gives me so much satisfaction seeing the excitement on people's faces when, for the first time, they have light.

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    There were a few concerns with regards to the location of the lithium batteries, spoken to many electricians, engineers, searched the internet and found a basic guideline from down under, but when you see where people are installing them , it makes you realise I am wasting your time, just put the battery where ever it fits and move on.

    Until I see a basic guideline for lithium battery installations to create public awareness in SA , I am going to install the battery as per the Aussie guidelines.

    I am sure we will eventually get some stability and direction in the industry, but for now I am going to shoot from the hip and make a living.

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    100% I am seeing sleek talking salesman make a lot of money with this solar. They no nothing about being a spark and they don't care about any rule or nothing. They find a spark who has a paper and that's it... The salesman is covered as the spark has a paper.... That spark is saying nothing as he is cheap and not proper qualified i.e not wireman.

    Basically make the money, try CYA and sleep at night.

    It is ridiculous what I am seeing now.

    These sales okes or even solar installers are begging for me to come back as the stuff they getting now from other sparks is just dangerous and it's making them look silly. Not a bad thing but still haha.

    I must say I am saddened when my quote is challangeed but more so why I say I take 7 days opposed to the other one 2 days but I just carry on and wait for the call to come fix... Sometimes no call which then I hope the job is decent.

    I am not perfect and don't claim to be but I care and also aim to get better everyday and learn.



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