Rewiring old ballast type light fittings for LED tubes

[Leecatt]

Isetech,

Despite how this thread started, you have brought much interesting information to the table and you have raised some good points in your argument. Your due diligence is to be commended and I personally would like to thank you for the above posts.
As a contribution, I want to add that I bought an led fitting last week which had a fuse. The fuse was intergrated into the connection block. The live connection was longer than the others with a push in fuse between the two terminals, similar to what is found in a car but incorporating a glass fuse.
I have included a screenshot of a similar connector block with fuse



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[Derlyn]

Its a fancy word for degreaser. I am sure if you use a bit of handy handy.

Post a pic of one of your retrofits so we can see how to do it right.

What type of fuse holder and size fuse do you install?

I just need to figure out how to copy the image into Ptouch software and I am good to go.

Sorry man

I thought you would have realized that my post was "tongue in cheek".

Not one retrofit that I've either done or come across complies with 6 a,b or c.
I do, however, label the supply side and attach a label saying " led tubes only". That's already more than what most other modifiers in my valley do.

Even newly bought 4ft and 5ft led fittings come without the required circuit diagrams, fuses or labels.

[Isetech]

When you supply and fit an appliance like a light fitting, you would be required to provide certification for that light fitting, and that was one of the biggest challenges I faced yesterday while shopping for a light fitting with SANS certification. I was told by some wholesalers that their products are "SAFEhouse" approved, so I requested the certification from SAFEhouse and once again got that bank look. As pointed out to me by management, they sell millions of light fittings and nobody requests certification, which doesnt make it right.

I went to AC/DC and opened a couple of their open channel fittings and found they use a fuse which looks like a starter.

I did find one fitting with a fuse in the terminal, but no wiring diagram and no label on the power side lamp holder.

How are all these companies issuing COC's if they don't have certification.


Looking at the old COC in section 4 (which has been removed)

11. The installation including all "accessible" components complies with SANS 0142.

12. The installation complies with the general safety principles of SANS 0142 and is "reasonably safe".


The new COC, section 4

2. Components have been correctly selected and installed.


My question is simple if you cant even find a SANS approved light fitting, how do issue a COC?

Some of the responses will be that it can be "approved" to international standards, then can someone please share the SANS documents with the list of international standards.



I found a light fitting being sold at one of the electrical wholesalers with IEC standard 60598-2-1.

KED SOUTH AFRICA

EMPTY BATTEN FITTING
2X58W 1.5M WIDE
A6 Double bracket

This product must be earthed and installed
by a qualified electrician

Date code :jun,2021

There no wirng diagram in the fitting.

There is no fuse in the fitting and no labels on the lamp holder to identify L - N. So once the fitting is closed, you cant tell which side has power. This is where using different products become an issue. If you install a Pioled lamp into the fitting the wrong way , there is going a bang.

I have never installed a standard fluorescent tube in into an LED fitting, maybe someone can share what will happen ?

[Isetech]

Isetech,

Despite how this thread started, you have brought much interesting information to the table and you have raised some good points in your argument. Your due diligence is to be commended and I personally would like to thank you for the above posts.
As a contribution, I want to add that I bought an led fitting last week which had a fuse. The fuse was intergrated into the connection block. The live connection was longer than the others with a push in fuse between the two terminals, similar to what is found in a car but incorporating a glass fuse.
I have included a screenshot of a similar connector block with fuse



Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

I do tend to get worked up at times In most cases it is just pure frustration having to deal with this industry as a whole.

You can buy this connector at AC/DC, I collected a few yesterday for future retrofits, the way the 4 terminal is cheaper than the 2 terminal unit.

After reading the document a second time I found that you have to install a sperate fuse for each lamp. Instead I found a fuse which looks like the one used in a stove, much cheaper. The smart thing to do would be to drill a hole close to the lamp holder on either side of the fitting, which would make the power side easy to identify and you can replace the lamp without opening the cover.

The AC/DC fuse holders code is P115 (5x20mm panel mount)

[Isetech]

https://www.acdc.co.za/products/4-wa...nt=30469252236

or a much cheaper option

https://www.acdc.co.za/pages/product-individual?P115

[Isetech]

I look forward to someone attaching SANS certification for any of the light fittings supplied in SA or the clause in SANS and other certification which allows for us to supply and install light fittings which are not SANS approved.

Even better I would like to see a COC issued with all the accredited document attached to the COC for a new installation.

[Leecatt]

After reading the document a second time I found that you have to install a sperate fuse for each lamp. Instead I found a fuse which looks like the one used in a stove, much cheaper. The smart thing to do would be to drill a hole close to the lamp holder on either side of the fitting, which would make the power side easy to identify and you can replace the lamp without opening the cover.

The AC/DC fuse holders code is P115 (5x20mm panel mount)

"3) For multiple lamp luminaires, a protector shall be installed in the live lead of each lampholder. Internal wiring shall be of size at least 0,4 mm2 (see figure 2)."

This is very interesting. The led lamp I was referring to had one set of wires running from the terminal block to the first lampholder and then a bridge between the two lamp holders.
What is figure 2?



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[Isetech]

"3) For multiple lamp luminaires, a protector shall be installed in the live lead of each lamp holder. Internal wiring shall be of size at least 0,4 mm2 (see figure 2)."

This is very interesting. The led lamp I was referring to had one set of wires running from the terminal block to the first lamp holder and then a bridge between the two lamp holders.
What is figure 2?


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The Mesmerise brand of fittings have a single fuse in the terminal block. (model number ML-OC5FT-IP20)

The question is do they have an IEC standard certification or SANS certification, why is the certification or standard not displayed on page 58 with all other information? Should it not be a standard requirement that any product sold in SA should have the information visible both on the product and the catalogue?

The first page has a paragraph which states that and I quote

"Our products are made by specialist manufacturers and exceed both international and local standards. Adhering to all required certification, our LED's have test reports and detailed specification sheets available, in addition to the trendy product information-brochures"

Lets see the response from sales@mezlighting.co.za , email sent.

If we going to follow the rules and create regulations, I sure you would all agree that everyone should have to present the same documentation or at least a minimum standard.

If you make a rule that there should be a diagram, labels, at 0.4mm wire and fuse for each lamp holder it should apply to everyone, not just some, otherwise the phrase "grey area" is used as an excuse. If one company is required to use SANS regs or IEC standard them everyone should be able to use the same standard.

[Isetech]

I have received a 38 page test report from Mesmerise issued on 25 Jan 2021. the test was carried out by Anbotek product safety.

The light is tested as per IEC 60598-2-1:1979+A1:1987 AND IEC 60598-1:2014+A1:2017

I would assume the IEC standard takes preference over SANS standards and therefore you dont have to adhere to all the requirements of SANS regs?

Why should should we bother with SANS regs if everyone is using IEC standards, why don't they just scrap SANS regs?

[Isetech]

Could this be why in section 4 - 2. Components have been correctly selected and installed, now used. So you no longer required to install SANS approved products, so long as they have some test report from some place some where in the world ?