Stove Isolator position

[Derlyn]

As a matter of interest, the gas guys also have a forum which apparently is only accessible to registered gas installers.

I have been chatting to gas installers who have been discussing exactly what we are discussing and what I am relaying here comes from their forum.

We have, here in our valley, someone who is both a registered electrical contractor as well as a registered gas installer. Whenever I'm in doubt, I consult him. He sees both sides of the story.

Derlyn.

[GCE]

What about the switches on the electric oven which arc ... if gas is heavier than air then the gas will be sitting below the counter where the switches are located in the electric oven ... which will arc as operated ... making a much bigger problem than a plug below the counter which is not operated under normal conditions.

Correct , which is why I am even more convinced that we cannot classify the " oven combination " as a hazardous area and since we don't classify as such we can use normal electrical equipment within the " safety distances " as per the requirements on the gas regulations clause 9 .
Besides the ignitor that operates from mains power 5mm from the burner and point of gas release - They contradict themselves


The more I look at it the more I feel that we can tell the gas guys that the regulations does not apply.

Not sure what I am missing .

Derlyn says because the pvc plate can melt - They do not refer to heat , just burner and potential point of gas release and the 200mm distance if you don't comply to SANS 10108 rated equipment

[Derlyn]

The gas guys also say it's perfectly in order to plug in a gas stove. Who am I to argue.

I will refrain from commenting any further.

Don't want to make anymore "incorrect" statements.

Derlyn.

[GCE]

The gas guys also say it's perfectly in order to plug in a gas stove. Who am I to argue.

I will refrain from commenting any further.

Don't want to make anymore "incorrect" statements.

Derlyn.

Hi

The statement you got from the gas guy just shows how the different gas installers are interpreting the regulations to suit themselves or do not fully understand what they are reading and alternatively it could be that somebody has told them don't allow electrical equipment behind the stove or within 200mm from the edge and so that is what they are preaching without reading it themselves

[ians]

The gas guys also say it's perfectly in order to plug in a gas stove. Who am I to argue.

I will refrain from commenting any further.

Don't want to make anymore "incorrect" statements.

Derlyn.

Lets not go down that route ... we are here to share our information and discuss topics ... it is important for people to share their thoughts ... right or wrong.

A good example is your comment about the isolators ... sometimes I get so wound up in my thought process and I forget the basics.

[GCE]

I would like to pull this thread back to the original topic and I should have actually called the thread Stove isolator position in relation to Gas .

I have a problem where the gas regulations have been written without discussing with the electrical industry and that the gas guys in my opinion do not fully understand the regulation that is written .

Going to place some thoughts below

If I look at the regulation and take the first sentence -

9 Electrical equipment and other sources of ignition
Where electrical equipment is placed within the safety distance as specified in figures 3, 4 and 6
such equipment shall be in accordance with the requirements of SANS 10108.
Electrical equipment, such as light switches and plugs, shall be at least 200 mm away from any
burner and potential point of gas release. Where it is necessary to install a gas hob together with an
electric oven, a three-point plug socket shall not be used to connect the electric oven. A proper
isolator switch shall be in place above the level of the hob and it shall have at least 200 mm
clearance from the hob.
No electrical connection shall be made below the hob. See figures 3 and 4 for further connection


The first sentence refers me to SANS 10108 where the heading is " The classification of hazardous locations and
the selection of equipment for use in such locations"

In the reg it states that LPG is heavier than air - Therefore in my opinion I can place the isolator above the hob as it would be in accordance with SANS 10108 . The rest of the regulation does not come into play - Right or wrong ?

If we really have a think on it the Kitchen cannot be a Hazardous area due to a gas hob otherwise we have all got the majority of our installations wrong.
A socket 200mm away from the hob and then plug a toaster in that can sit on the edge of the hob is surely a bigger issue ( if you listen to the gas guys) than the socket itself.

" Electrical equipment, such as light switches and plugs, shall be at least 200 mm away from any
burner and potential point of gas release."

This statement above from there reg does not state in a vertical or horizontal plain - The written clause always takes preference to the illustration, because if we used the illustration only we should then have all isolators on the right side of the hob and not on the left side of the hob ?
It also states from " Burner or gas release" - We can then measure from the burner itself , not from the edge of the frame - Right or wrong ?

If I am right then I say that in my original pic the isolator is fine as it is more than 200mm away from the burner or point of gas release and it complies to SANS 10108

In my opinion we have been taking the word of the gas installers without actually looking at the regulation.

Hi

I have been stirring this topic with the intention of trying to get some results that are workable with regards to the regs.
There is presently what appears to be a draft document out for comment on SANS 10087-1: 2021 and my interpretation of the 200mm from the burner appears to now be adopted in the draft illustration
I am going to attempt to find out and see if I can get a copy to post

[ians]

Here's a thought ... I cant take credit for it ... it was a suggestion someone else made for gas stoves.

Fit an isolator above the counter ... or use the stove isolator then extend the wire to the cupboard next to the stove and fit a socket outlet just below the counter (as high as possible ... because gas is heavier the air) ... problem solved ... everyone is happy.

The gas guy gets his isolator

The plug top doesnt have to be cut off ... so you dont loose your warranty.

The socket outlet is in a compartment away from the gas outlet or small bottle.

Everyone happy?

Now to figue out how to fix my DB in the same room (kitchen) as my 9 kg bottle problem.

[GCE]

Hi

I have been stirring this topic with the intention of trying to get some results that are workable with regards to the regs.
There is presently what appears to be a draft document out for comment on SANS 10087-1: 2021 and my interpretation of the 200mm from the burner appears to now be adopted in the draft illustration
I am going to attempt to find out and see if I can get a copy to post

The new Draft regulations SANS 10087-1 is still at the technical committee stage where the stakeholders are all having input
The feedback I received was that the new regs should stop some of the unnecessary changes that are having to be done
As soon as it comes out for public comment I will let everyone know

In the meantime we have to work with what we have

[ians]

I think there should be more focus on the issue at hand ... invalid COC's ... it not going to help making more rules and regulations if we cant even mange the regs already in circulation.

[GCE]

I think there should be more focus on the issue at hand ... invalid COC's ... it not going to help making more rules and regulations if we cant even mange the regs already in circulation.

The thread was in discussion on the conflict between gas reg and elec regs - If we don't actively get involved in getting the conflicts changed to a workable solution then you will also have a problem.
It is not new regulations, but changes to make them acceptable to industry which is why it is important to belong to an industry related body