Another Reg

**Dylboy** · 24-Sep-21, 03:27 PM

Reading an article and it states a pro for a generator is that you can simply switch it on and then plug it into any socket... I want a reg that I can quote if possible as to why that is wrong

We know it is not safe and a myriad of issues but a reg number goes a long way in bringing it up.

Also the generators are portable and centre taped etc which too is illegal as it is V-o-V almost every time.

Also I may be ignorant and it is fine but I highly doubt it by safety if main switch not tuned off and maintenance get a clap.... also if it is turned on while generator is running... also the 2.5mm cable may have to carry way more amps as it is now running the house amd making that 2.5mm a fuse wire...

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**Derlyn** · 24-Sep-21, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by Dylboy

Reading an article and it states a pro for a generator is that you can simply switch it on and then plug it into any socket... I want a reg that I can quote if possible as to why that is wrong

We know it is not safe and a myriad of issues but a reg number goes a long way in bringing it up.

Also the generators are portable and centre taped etc which too is illegal as it is V-o-V almost every time.

Also I may be ignorant and it is fine but I highly doubt it by safety if main switch not tuned off and maintenance get a clap.... also if it is turned on while generator is running... also the 2.5mm cable may have to carry way more amps as it is now running the house amd making that 2.5mm a fuse wire...

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It will be interesting to know the name of this publication.
I suggest you invest in the latest SANS 10142-1 edition. It doesn't come cheap, but is money well spent.

That's another thing. The price. Personally I think that the SANS 10142 should be made available to those that supply proof of their wireman's license and present registration with DOL at a drastically reduced price. That might actually go a long way in improving the quality of electrical work presently being carried out. I for one can remember a time when I desperately wanted a copy of the latest regulations, but at the time, couldn't afford buying it. I'm sure there are others who presently find themselves in that same position.

Peace out .. Derek

**ians** · 25-Sep-21, 12:28 PM

I am using 32 amp industrial type sockets for the generators.

**Dylboy** · 24-Sep-21, 07:21 PM

Yes ya I have the Ed.3 but want to find a single law reason as to why can not plug the gen feed direct to sockets, telling the client or whom ever that you can't do it does not always settle well with them and want a reason. But with typing all this I feel there are multiple ones actually that make it and not one law that states" generator shall not be plugged into a socket"

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**Derlyn** · 24-Sep-21, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by Dylboy

Yes ya I have the Ed.3 but want to find a single law reason as to why can not plug the gen feed direct to sockets, telling the client or whom ever that you can't do it does not always settle well with them and want a reason. But with typing all this I feel there are multiple ones actually that make it and not one law that states" generator shall not be plugged into a socket"

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7.12.2.5 Say no more.

Peace out .. Derek.

**Dylboy** · 24-Sep-21, 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by Derlyn

7.12.2.5 Say no more.

Peace out .. Derek.

Thank you !

I was mucking about in chapter 6.... should have gone straight to alt supplies, I went to the Annex of it... close but no cigar.

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**ians** · 25-Sep-21, 12:39 PM

All the things you listed were taken into consideration ... even the fuse in the generator and the cable glands on the generator had to be metal not PVc due to the vibration ... cable flexibility the works ... right down to protective layers on the cable for when it is in use.

**ians** · 24-Sep-21, 07:27 PM

I dont agree ... I recently completed an installation with a plug top and socket outlet for an 8 kva generator ... contacted the AIA ... sent all the drawings ... specs and design ... it was given the green light.

The way I see it ... if the AIA dont see a problem who is going to investigate ... the DOL ... yeah right.

**Dylboy** · 24-Sep-21, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by ians

I dont agree ... I recently completed an installation with a plug top and socket outlet for an 8 kva generator ... contacted the AIA ... sent all the drawings ... specs and design ... it was given the green light.

The way I see it ... if the AIA dont see a problem who is going to investigate ... the DOL ... yeah right.

That is interesting! Quick one, was the generator earthed or a centre tap on winding one ?

As you say there is no policing of any sorts, I have seen and know of a few people who plug the genny straight to socket so maybe it is OK as the AIA say.

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**ians** · 25-Sep-21, 08:28 AM

This is a good example of why I keep saying ... be careful of information shared on social media ... unless you have all the details including pics ... design criteria ... etc of the installation ... dont assume anything.

Let start with the generator ... after many hours of reading the regs (the new ed 3 regs I finally got around to buying) ... everything was taken into consideration ... including my experience and the person who has 100 times more technical experience in the industry than I do.

The generator on this site is not a V-O-V type generator ... however in saying that ... who says the owner doesnt burn out the generator and upgrade to a new one that might be a a V-O-V ... there is no way for you as the electrician to stop that ... just like you cant stop the home owner from plugging a suicide cord into your electrical installation that you signed off as "reasonably safe" 2 hours ago.

I have taken all the regs into consideration and designed the system to be a safe as possible.

Earthing and earth spike where installed as required.

The socket outlets are suitable for the full load of an 8 KVA generator.

The plug top and socket outlet is selected ... taking into consideration the generator is the source of power ... something I have noticed people dont take into consideration ... they put a plug male top on generator and a female socket on the wall ... eeeeeeish.

Cables sizes calculated and short circuit protection taken into consideration.

Type of cabling used due to environment conditions where taken into consideration.

Change over switch as per regs.

Indicator lights for both mains power and generator power (different colors) ...

Even a volt meter and current meter ... visible from both the main DB and changeover panel.

Combo breaker/isolator with overload protection and short circuit protection installed in the change over DB/panel.

Even the location and the fumes from the generator while running was taken into consideration ... something we are looking to improve ... because we want the generator to run inside a garage without having to worry about fumes from the exhaust ... fuel in the tank ... refilling the generator with fuel etc ... all these this must be considered before we can position the generator inside the garage ... I thought a stainless steel exhaust out the building and up 3 m would do the trick ...but it is not good enough ... for now it has wheels and must be moved to the specific location while in use.

The bottom line ... generators are dangerous ... make sure you take precaution ... because at the end of the day when something goes wrong ... you will be asked a lot of questions during the hearing ... you can only do what you think is right with the resources ... information and experience you have gain over the years ... just remember sparkies dont wear and dont have super powers.

I had a situation recently with an insurance assessor ... I was grilled for more than 2 hours ... he was trying to find a loop hole to get out of paying 2 claims making up around R 300k ... eventually they managed to use the fact that there was no storm on that day and therefore were not liable for claim and the claim had to be directed to the council ... however because we had made provision for every single type of event ...

There is lightning protection at the meter box and every DB ... there is under voltage/over voltage ... leakage current ... overcurrent protection ... even a device to protect against neutral being cut or stolen ... you name it ... it has the device ... they used the weather and said it was a surge from an external means other than the weather and ther ewas a clause to protect them for that scenario ... in short you pretty screwed unless they building takes a direct hit.