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Thread: Connecting 2Kw sinewave inverter to DB board

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    Platinum Member SilverNodashi's Avatar
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    Connecting 2Kw sinewave inverter to DB board

    Hi,

    A client wanted to know if he can get a COC for connecting a 2KW sinewave inverter to his DB board.

    It is similar to this one: https://www.globalsources.com/gsol/I...htm#1100254763 or this one: http://ecom.umbani-solar.co.za/produ...products_id/68

    It is connected through a changeover switch on the output and a double pole isolator on the input. Only some of the circuits run off it. I want to think this would fall under a UPS connection, but not sure if this particular inverter, which is a sinewave and not a puresine wave is allowed?
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    Hi

    Ask the supplier for the certificate of approval of the inverter , then it should not be a problem to issue a COC.
    If there is no paperwork available , remove the inverter as you are putting the owner at risk with his insurance company and ultimately yourself at risk of being sued for damages

    The OHSA states that you need to issue a COC for any electrical work done , pasted below

    (2) No person may use components within an electrical installation unless those components comply with the standards referred to in the relevant incorporated standard referred to in subregulation (1), and proof of compliance shall be identifiable on the components or certification shall be available from the manufacturer or supplier of the materials or components in terms of the National Regulator for Compulsory Specifications Act, 2008 (Act NO.5 of 2008).

    (4)
    Any person who undertakes to do electrical installation work shall ensure that a valid certificate of compliance is issued for that work.

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    Platinum Member SilverNodashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GCE View Post
    Hi

    Ask the supplier for the certificate of approval of the inverter , then it should not be a problem to issue a COC.
    If there is no paperwork available , remove the inverter as you are putting the owner at risk with his insurance company and ultimately yourself at risk of being sued for damages

    The OHSA states that you need to issue a COC for any electrical work done , pasted below

    (2) No person may use components within an electrical installation unless those components comply with the standards referred to in the relevant incorporated standard referred to in subregulation (1), and proof of compliance shall be identifiable on the components or certification shall be available from the manufacturer or supplier of the materials or components in terms of the National Regulator for Compulsory Specifications Act, 2008 (Act NO.5 of 2008).

    (4)
    Any person who undertakes to do electrical installation work shall ensure that a valid certificate of compliance is issued for that work.
    The inverter is ISO 9001:2000 and ISO 14001:2004 certified, as well and meet ROHS certification. It probably doesn't have SABS approval like most imported stuff. I don't even think the big brand inverters which are on the CoCt approved list as SABS approved. This is in Ekhuruleni so he's not too worried about that Coct cerfification at this stage and will install another inverter in due time. This is purely as backup for now.
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    Diamond Member Justloadit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverNodashi View Post
    The inverter is ISO 9001:2000 and ISO 14001:2004 certified, as well and meet ROHS certification. It probably doesn't have SABS approval like most imported stuff. I don't even think the big brand inverters which are on the CoCt approved list as SABS approved. This is in Ekhuruleni so he's not too worried about that Coct cerfification at this stage and will install another inverter in due time. This is purely as backup for now.
    ISO is not a certification that the product is approved. It is a standard which a manufacturer abides to maintain a certain level of quality in the manufacturing process.

    ISO 14001:2004 specifies requirements for an environmental management system to enable an organization to develop and implement a policy and objectives which take into account legal requirements and other requirements to which the organization subscribes, and information about significant environmental aspects.

    ISO 14001:2004 specifies requirements for an environmental management system to enable an organization to develop and implement a policy and objectives which take into account legal requirements and other requirements to which the organization subscribes, and information about significant environmental aspects.
    RHOS compliant again refers to materials used in the manufacturing of the product.
    RoHS is the acronym for Restriction of Hazardous Substances. RoHS, also known as Directive 2002/95/EC, originated in the European Union and restricts the use of specific hazardous materials found in electrical and electronic products.
    Certification is something like
    SANS 211 212 213 214 215 222
    SANS 61000-4-2 or IEC 61000-4-2
    SANS 61000-4-3 or IEC 61000-4-3

    CE certified must have a number and simply placing a symbol "CE" does not mean it is certified.

    These processes cost thousands of Rands, and very few manufacturers do it. This is the reason they are cheap!
    Beware of China Mall products, they do not follow these certification processes.
    An electrician can not issue a COC unless the specific equipment installed has the necessary "SANAS" certification, which must be applied for at NRCS. If there is an existing IEC certificate, it makes the process of obtaining the local SANAS certificate a bit easier, but must still go through the process, which can take from 6 months to 2 years, and still costs a small fortune, especially if there are a number of derivatives of the same product, such as 12V, 24V, 36V, 48V. Each one must get a certificate.

    This is a one reason why the local products seem so expensive. They require a minimum amount of filtering to pass the EMI and EMC and RF certification requirements, along with other safety requirements, which invariably adds extra cost to the product to get the certification.
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    Platinum Member SilverNodashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justloadit View Post
    ISO is not a certification that the product is approved. It is a standard which a manufacturer abides to maintain a certain level of quality in the manufacturing process.



    RHOS compliant again refers to materials used in the manufacturing of the product.


    Certification is something like
    SANS 211 212 213 214 215 222
    SANS 61000-4-2 or IEC 61000-4-2
    SANS 61000-4-3 or IEC 61000-4-3

    CE certified must have a number and simply placing a symbol "CE" does not mean it is certified.

    These processes cost thousands of Rands, and very few manufacturers do it. This is the reason they are cheap!
    Beware of China Mall products, they do not follow these certification processes.
    An electrician can not issue a COC unless the specific equipment installed has the necessary "SANAS" certification, which must be applied for at NRCS. If there is an existing IEC certificate, it makes the process of obtaining the local SANAS certificate a bit easier, but must still go through the process, which can take from 6 months to 2 years, and still costs a small fortune, especially if there are a number of derivatives of the same product, such as 12V, 24V, 36V, 48V. Each one must get a certificate.

    This is a one reason why the local products seem so expensive. They require a minimum amount of filtering to pass the EMI and EMC and RF certification requirements, along with other safety requirements, which invariably adds extra cost to the product to get the certification.
    I hear you.

    This isn't a "cheap china mall product". There are many products on the market from reputable suppliers who don't meet SANAS certification or have been applied for at NRCS, but it's being installed. I have seen many UPS's which fall under that category that's hard wired to the DB board.

    Ok, so let's say this is the case and he then use it like a Generator, i.e. install a generator plug and changeover switch, will that suffice?
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    Diamond Member Justloadit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverNodashi View Post
    I hear you.

    This isn't a "cheap china mall product". There are many products on the market from reputable suppliers who don't meet SANAS certification or have been applied for at NRCS, but it's being installed. I have seen many UPS's which fall under that category that's hard wired to the DB board.

    Ok, so let's say this is the case and he then use it like a Generator, i.e. install a generator plug and changeover switch, will that suffice?
    Quote Originally Posted by SilverNodashi View Post
    Ok, so let's say this is the case and he then use it like a Generator, i.e. install a generator plug and changeover switch, will that suffice?
    I am not the right person to answer your question.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilverNodashi View Post
    This isn't a "cheap china mall product". There are many products on the market from reputable suppliers who don't meet SANAS certification or have been applied for at NRCS, but it's being installed. I have seen many UPS's which fall under that category that's hard wired to the DB board.
    Definitely happening, but does not mean that it is right and in no way can the electrician issue a COC. This compromises the home owner with respect to insurance and safety.
    What does "Reputable Supplier" mean?

    If the supplier was reputable, then they would have gone through the process of local certification.
    I am currently not selling my product until I have certification, (Will get it very soon - one more test to complete) simply because I can not afford to carry the cost of responsibility if something goes wrong which even has nothing to do with my product, but will be blamed because of the non certification. This is the problem Who carries the cost of responsibility?
    Last edited by Justloadit; 26-Mar-19 at 11:09 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverNodashi View Post
    I hear you.

    This isn't a "cheap china mall product". There are many products on the market from reputable suppliers who don't meet SANAS certification or have been applied for at NRCS, but it's being installed. I have seen many UPS's which fall under that category that's hard wired to the DB board.

    Ok, so let's say this is the case and he then use it like a Generator, i.e. install a generator plug and changeover switch, will that suffice?
    I am still waiting for PioLED to product SABS certificates for their lighting products...they sell millions of fittings and lamps...Please attach it here if someone has found one...then i ask myself...what is the differnece between PioLED and led lamps at the china mall...and if the china mall product are illegal...how is it that they get away with selling these "illegal" products?


    Will your insurance pay out if your house burns down if the fire was caused by the Pioled product not being SABS approved?

    Another issue is telkom D link adsl routers...mine actually started burning smoke coming out the unit...when i returned it to telkom they plugged it in you could smell the burning and see smoke... they informed me that there was absolutely not warranty on the product and that i would have to claim from my insurance or just pay full price to replace it...they informed me that they had already replaced many units that day...was at telkom on saturday morning...more routers with the same issue...smoke with a burning smell...it seem they messed up with this product and the LIT box...they freeze due to a firmware glitch which requires an update...which most people are not aware of...i am surprised that the insurance companies havent caught on to this router issue....they must have already paid out a lot in claims...at a thousand a pop.

    so back to the question about a COC and product certification...not sure that you need to be too concerned about product being SABS approved.

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    Hi

    From a COC perspective if there is a sub DB then the DB it is fed from must have a MCB feeding the sub DB and the sub DB a double pole AC in MCB, a double pole AC out MCB, UPS bypass switch (what everyone is calling a change over switch), indication lights to indicate power on, warning labels that alternative power in use.

    Note: indication lights in all DB's concerned.

    Please from my experience most inverters when they use battery power or solar for that matter there is no star point and you get a voltage between neutral and earth of at least 90v. You need to create a star point in most cases.

    Sean

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    Platinum Member SilverNodashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeanM View Post
    Hi

    From a COC perspective if there is a sub DB then the DB it is fed from must have a MCB feeding the sub DB and the sub DB a double pole AC in MCB, a double pole AC out MCB, UPS bypass switch (what everyone is calling a change over switch), indication lights to indicate power on, warning labels that alternative power in use.

    Note: indication lights in all DB's concerned.
    I already do this in all installations.

    Quote Originally Posted by SeanM View Post
    Please from my experience most inverters when they use battery power or solar for that matter there is no star point and you get a voltage between neutral and earth of at least 90v. You need to create a star point in most cases.

    Sean
    Do you mean, bind the neutral to earth? I could not find any documentation on this inverter saying that it's safe to do so.
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    Hi

    Yes star the neutral and earth this is one of the few exceptions in the regulations.

    Test you voltage between neutral and earth when the inverter is running off the batteries and see what you get if you get a voltage it is more dangerous not to.

    Put your polarity tester into a plug circuit it will show you straight away and if so then you earth leakage doesn't work.

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