Banking details confirmation scam

[Yvonne]

The branch manager of our local branch, who had frequently promised to telephone back, has never once returned the calls, when my husband stated that the purpose of his call yesterday, was for a bank reference number which we required to approach the Banking Ombudsman.

He said he was trying his best to attempt to get more information from the branch where the account was opened, and was dealing with the branch manager there, and mentioned the managers name.
He was to telephone back with the reference number.
He did not telephone back.

So my husband then telephoned the originating branch and managed to speak to the Branch Manager, and "surprise" "surprise" he knew nothing about the matter.

After patiently listening to the problem, only when my husband stated that the purpose of the call was for a bank reference number as this was required to approach the Banking Ombudsman, did he start acting as if he was interested in offering some potential solutions to the problem.

Right now we still have no reference number, either from the local branch where we had tried to sort out the query, or the originating branch.

But! the manager has agreed to accept a letter from our daughter of the change of address, but it has to be an "original" letter!
All of this, to get to a point where we were before.
They acknowledge the address was changed, the credit card and bank account are linked. The credit card goes to the correct postal address, a box number, but the current account statement does not.
Marketing telephone calls come to our current telephone number! as the house is not registered in our daughters name, nor the telephone, they are getting that information from the change of address our daughter had provided.

By the time our daughter is in a position to try to do something about the fraud it will be far too late to do anything!

To ask the ombudsman to assist one must have everything in writing, with a reference number, from the bank.
Each time we approached the bank, we should have taken with us written communication, and need to have proof that the bank was handed the originals.

As we now have no records, just "heresay", we have to start at the beginning in order to approach the ombudsman of banking.

So, my advice to others to prevent this happening to them, is to put every problem in writing even when dealing directly in the bank offices or accross the counter of the bank.
(Probably be charged a fee for "acceptance" of the copy of the letter, confirming the conversation in the bank!)

The bank have got to be given a reasonable amount of time to deal with the problem?

Our daughter cannot make a "claim" of fraud without the bank statement to verify it, we cannot get the bank statement, therefore no action can be taken!
Argh!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yvonne

[garthu]

Actually cant believe what i'm reading here! Its madness. How times are becoming that we cant even protect our own money as its been "protected". Really have my thoughts here! Cant they at the very least just "suspend" the account completely? Put in writing to them failing to suspend the account, you will hold them liable for costs to resolve. Go public??? 'm sure you have tried... just my 2 cents worth

[Yvonne]

I am so thankful to be able to say that after asking for a reference number in order to lay the complaint with the Ombudsman, we are now receiving assistance, and my daughter has been promised copies of her statements as soon as possible.

They have agreed to change her address!
One step closer to checking if funds have been drawn which were unauthorised!

Thanks for the advice,

Yvonne

[Dave A]

Thank you for the tip, Yvonne. Obviously this reference number tack works.

[Yvonne]

Just an update on my problem from earlier in this thread.

To date the bank have refused to provide a reference number to enable us to request the Banking Ombudsmans assistance in the matter.
When we asked the bank for the reference number as we were needing it for the Ombudsman, the bank were super helpful and promised that it would all be sorted out, and we actually believed them, but nothing, neither the change of address acted upon, or the reference number we require has been forthcoming.

Three sets of couriered documents from the U.S.A. requesting the change of address for my daughter to enable her to obtain her statements to at least verify if in fact the funds have dissapeared - are ignored.

As we are now in the U.S. ourselves as well, it is impossible for us to assist her any further.

Wonder if it is possible to sue a bank for "obstruction of provision of information" on your own bank account?

If there is anything untoward regarding her current account, or credit card, our daughter will never be refunded as it would be months and months before any fraud could be investigated.
We have dealt with two branch managers, the banks fraud department and there is just nowhere else to appeal for assistance.

Personally I do not approve of "Blue Peter", (hope I have the correct name?) but have heard that the banks respond rather quickly to complaints posted on Blue Peter.

Yvonne

[garthu]

Hiya Yvonne, thats not on! The fact they won't give you reference to me means they are hiding!

The web is hellopeter.com . Agree, i also dont generally approve, but only because people use it for minuscule and black mail tactics - i think you have EVERY right to try it as you really have tried and thats what it is really for - something like this!

[Dave A]

Well, if the time for polite requests is over (and it really looks like it), you may as well name and shame the bank involved here too, Yvonne.

[Marq]

I have been through the bank ombudsman, with a long story that happened some years back involving ABSA's ability to divulge private and confidential information without the necessary subpoenas and legal paperwork.

Outcome was that after a long run around, they decided that the bank was guilty and offered to fine them R500 if I would sign a confidentiality number and go away. Considering that ABSA created a R200k problem, this was a drop in the ocean and the whole thing lapsed with them keeping their measly R500.

It was obvious during the process that the banking ombudsman is just another branch of the general banking world trying to get the public to go away by wearing them down through legal and heavy paperwork requirements and by just dragging it on month after month. This reference number story is just one more piece of evidence of that liability to show you they are in charge from the start and you are likely to get nowhere.

Needless to say Absa is still not my choice of bank.

I have also tried the Estate Agent Board, the Insurance Ombudsman, the Medical Council, the Natal Legal Society. I have also tried the Office of Consumer Protection. Not once have I had any form of success.

The funniest of them all (cause they are all a joke and a waste of time) was the legal Tip Offs Anonymous - the legal help line set up by the legal society at one stage.
So I phoned in and started the complaint acting anonymously and telling my tale of woe.
OK - says the helpline 'consultant', 'tell me who are the parties to the case'.
'I can't tell or that would not be anonymous'.
'Well then how do we let the Attorneys know which case they have a problem with - so they can investigate and report back to us".
"You don't this is your anonymous tip off that you have corrupt dishonest lawyers in your midst".
"Well we cannot take your complaint unless we know who you are".

Well I eventually gave them all the details and took on the attorneys through them but soon realised that the law society is there for...well their members only and they have no intention of letting you dirty their apparently already tarnished hallowed halls.

This stuff needs time and patience and no expectations. They will promise the earth and deliver dirt in the end. Your stuff is always in the system but somehow never comes out of it. At some stage you forget about the problem and everyone goes on with their lives and the ombudsman smiles and tells all how they solved many problems and have no unhappiness out there in the big wide world.

[Dave A]

Perhaps there is a procedure for when the bank refuses to give you a reference number. As actions go (or lack of it), it isn't that far away from a tacit admission of guilt.

Or gross incompetence, which also should fall foul of acceptable standards.

Yvonne, perhaps amongst all your other endeavours to get this resolved, go back to the ombudsman and say the bank is refusing to give a reference number.

[Yvonne]

I am not comfortable with naming the bank as in past threads I have claimed there is a possibility of a further fraud on her account.

That's the major frustration, there might not be, everything may be in order, but we have no means to verify this!
We were misinformed when we thought her funds had been withdrawn, we were subsequently told that this previous information was in fact incorrect.

When the original fraud happened, our daughter was required by the bank to sign a non-disclosure confidentiality form before her funds were returned to her account.
This was done within 24 hours, so there is no way that the bank had any reservation about any possibility of our daughter trying to fraudulently claim that funds had been withdrawn, even bank charges reversed.
It happened on our company account on the same date. So without question it was an "inside" job.

Right now, trying to submit evidence to the Ombudsman is a problem, as we did not bring all the documents with us when we left in April. (Here for 3 months!) the bank had agreed to send her the bank statements to her US address, so we hoped the problem had been solved.

This way, monthly bank charges are going to accumulate, as she has no access to her account whatsoever, and is unable to even close it!
I bet the second her account is in the red, they will have the ability to contact her without any problem.
It is the sheer hopelessness of the situation that is the major frustration.

Marq, I feel there is only just so much you can try to do, which you very obviously did!

I am finding more and more situations where we have been literally taken for a ride, the legal recourse option is not possible as not many of us can afford to throw good money after bad, and it seems as if accepting losses that we have no choice but to absorb, are becoming the norm.

In many instances the system is failing us, the more technology involved, the more difficult it is to cope with the system, especially banks.
It seems as if all "human thought" has disappeard and even though we talk to humans, it vanishes into the system, as if they were a machine!

Yvonne