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Thread: BBBEE wrong

  1. #151
    Silver Member Greig Whitton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blurock View Post
    Finally we get to the truth. BEE is discrimination and should be challenged in court.
    Absolutely. I genuinely believe that there is a strong case to be made for challenging the constitutionality of Broad-Based Black Economic Empowerment, especially the new Codes that clearly and blatantly discriminate between black and non-black business owners to the extent that it is impossible for a white business owner to achieve the same B-BBEE rating (and, therefore, competitive parity) as a black business owner.

    Per Section 9 (3) of the Constitution:

    "The state may not unfairly discriminate directly or indirectly against anyone on one or more grounds, including race, gender, sex, pregnancy, marital status, ethnic or social origin, colour, sexual orientation, age, disability, religion, conscience, belief, culture, language and birth."

    Now consider the following extract from the Preamble of the Broad-Based Black Economic Empowerment Act that contextualises the purpose of this legislation (bold text my emphasis):

    "AND WHEREAS, unless further steps are taken to increase the effective participation of the majority of South Africans in the economy, the stability and prosperity of the economy in the future may be undermined to the detriment of all South Africans, irrespective of race;

    AND IN ORDER TO—

    promote the achievement of the constitutional right to equality, increase broad-based and effective participation of black people in the economy and promote a higher growth rate, increased employment and more equitable income distribution; and
    establish a national policy on broad-based black economic empowerment so as to promote the economic unity of the nation, protect the common market, and promote equal opportunity and equal access to government services."

    Nothing in that Preamble, in my opinion, justifies the unfair discrimination introduced by the new Codes. In fact, the new Codes arguably fly in the face of the reasons for the introduction of B-BBEE in the first place as indicated by the Preamble elements that I highlighted:

    (a) Protecting economic stability and prosperity for all South Africans irrespective of race;
    (b) Promoting the Constitutional right to equality;
    (c) Promoting economic unity;
    (d) Protecting the common market; and
    (e) Promoting equal opportunity and equal access to government services.

    But who has the resources to take our government to the Constitutional Court? Anyone reading this post does! Last year, Mark Shuttleworth set up a R250 million trust to fund legal cases against the South African government and protect the constitutional rights of all South Africans.

    If you are passionately opposed to B-BBEE and want to do something about it, here is your chance. Reach out to Mark Shuttleworth's trust and apply for assistance.

    Founder of Growth Surge - Helping entrepreneurs create more wealth and enjoy more freedom.

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    Blurock (18-May-15)

  3. #152
    Diamond Member Justloadit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig Whitton View Post
    Companies will need to prove that they are "empowering suppliers" (e.g. that they source locally) when they are independently certified by their auditor or verification agency. If they can't produce independently verifiable evidence, then they won't earn their points.
    Theoretically this sounds as if it is going to work, but in practice, who knows
    Victor - Knowledge is a blessing or a curse, your current circumstances make you decide!
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  4. #153
    Diamond Member Blurock's Avatar
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    I believe that people can only be empowered by knowledge. You cannot empower people by giving them grants and jobs that they cannot do. (refer Eskom, Post office, SAA, SABC etc etc and Government in general) People can be only uplifted by training and teaching them so that they can acquire skills that can be sold on the labour market.

    There is a shortage of skilled people in this country, so why are so many young people still sitting on their arses and doing nothing? Everyone is waiting on a handout from government. The money will not last. The cANCer has just about emptied the coffers. The honeymoon is now over, as predicted by Moeletsi Mbeki: Architects of Poverty: Why African Capitalism Needs Changing, Central Books, April 2009; Advocates for change: How to overcome Africa's challenges, Picador Africa, 2011.
    Excellence is not a skill; its an attitude...

  5. #154
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    Interesting to see what people think about certain things and other people in the country

  6. #155
    Diamond Member Blurock's Avatar
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    As factories close, we lose the skills of qualified technicians and engineers. Who will the teach our children when they are all gone? Where will they find employment? Who will drive innovation and create new products? We cannot just import everything that we want, we have to manufacture it ourselves. There are products that cannot be economically manufactured locally, but we should be careful not to just run to the importer if we want something. Importers do not create jobs or skills.

    Our manufacturing sector can address many social skills by employing more people and training them as engineers and technicians. We have the people, we now have to create a learning culture and the will to work. Government can play a big role by incentivising the manufacturing sector.
    Why do we export raw materials and not the added value of a finished product which can turn our whole economy around?
    Excellence is not a skill; its an attitude...

  7. #156
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    Surely clear that the implication is that ALL black people are the same

    Of course, we are dealing with the same white people who ALL claim NOT to have benefited from Apartheid ... but they ALL went to better schools than black people, ALL had access to better health care and systems as a result of Apartheid then now claim they did NOT benefit from it

  8. #157
    Diamond Member Blurock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSS100 View Post
    Surely clear that the implication is that ALL black people are the same

    Of course, we are dealing with the same white people who ALL claim NOT to have benefited from Apartheid ... but they ALL went to better schools than black people, ALL had access to better health care and systems as a result of Apartheid then now claim they did NOT benefit from it
    Please, we do not need your racist remarks. Please read my post again and notice the facts that you are missing. We do not create wealth by opportunist and populist political agendas, but by sharing knowledge and by training people with skills so that they can fend for themselves.

    Everyone is looking for a job, but a job is a pick and a shovel. Aim a little higher and acquire a skill that will give you the power to negotiate a better wage and a better life for your family. It is time that we look past our differences and look at how we can all work together as SOUTH AFRICANS to make this country great again. I am sure that we all want peace and prosperity so that our children can inherit a country that can stand proud in the international arena. Not only our sporting heroes, but also heroes in business and in our our communities must stand together.
    Excellence is not a skill; its an attitude...

  9. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blurock View Post
    Please, we do not need your racist remarks. Please read my post again and notice the facts that you are missing. We do not create wealth by opportunist and populist political agendas, but by sharing knowledge and by training people with skills so that they can fend for themselves.

    Everyone is looking for a job, but a job is a pick and a shovel. Aim a little higher and acquire a skill that will give you the power to negotiate a better wage and a better life for your family. It is time that we look past our differences and look at how we can all work together as SOUTH AFRICANS to make this country great again. I am sure that we all want peace and prosperity so that our children can inherit a country that can stand proud in the international arena. Not only our sporting heroes, but also heroes in business and in our our communities must stand together.
    Read all the discriminating and degrading posts made by all the white people about transformation and black people and BBBEE which is needed to adddress the cruel injustice of the past in this country before you tell me of making racism remarks

    Start from beginning of the posts then you shall see MR Clever

  10. #159
    Site Caretaker Dave A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSS100 View Post
    Interesting to see what people think about certain things and other people in the country
    Exposing and debating these differences in thinking is rather the point of this forum website.

    Quote Originally Posted by SSS100 View Post
    Surely clear that the implication is that ALL black people are the same
    It's a long thread. Would you care to quote a couple of posts in support of that assertion.

    Quote Originally Posted by SSS100 View Post
    Of course, we are dealing with the same white people who ALL claim NOT to have benefited from Apartheid
    Oh I don't deny that at all. I'm of an age where being born white in South Africa was undeniably advantageous to my education and economic opportunities in the apartheid era.
    Do you judge me on that alone? Or is what I chose to do with those advantages what really counts when you judge me?

  11. #160
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    Thanks Dave for being open and honest to acknowledge that you benefited from the Apartheid regime... many white people still want to shy away from that fact and that's just stupid and coward behaviour... you are one of the FEW brave ones needed to re-build this country

    White people need to differentiate from the corrupt politicians and many honest hard working black people that needs to be given chances and included in the economy.

    The economy can not continue to benefit just a few white people and as a black person I will NOT be apologetic for insisting that black people be given opportunities because for many years as black people we have been isolated from the main stream economy and as a result we are not economically at par with the minority in the country .. the whites.. FACT

    Those white people who do not want transformation can leave ... Australia will fast track your immigration !!!!

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