Minimum force being used.....the more things change the more they stay the same...

**vieome** · 20-Aug-12, 08:54 AM

Worst yet, the Goverment says they will not assist with state burials, how can they call it a national tragedy and refuse to assist?

**wynn** · 20-Aug-12, 11:49 AM

And of course this has nothing to do with the government of the day (read cANCer) telling the general population to stop protesting or we will cut off your ears for not listening.
A week of mourning?? more like a week to digest and listen before we cut more ears off.

It started with one Andries Tatane in Ficksburg six months ago and has now escalated to 30 something (are we sure of the number???)
Next time it will be hundreds.

**ChrisNG53** · 20-Aug-12, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by Nickolai Naydenov

Did any of you watch interface tonight? If you did then you would have understood that the whole situation was created by the two rival mine unions in fight for control and money, don't you guys think that that's where you should start from?

From what I gather specifically from Adrian and Chris if 40 policeman died it would have been better than 40 miners because the logic is that's what jobs they chose? You need to stop being so selfish and put yourself in their shoes, what do you do when they shoot at you? Duck and hope you don't get shot or do you retaliate? There was also commnts on why they didn't use rubber bullets, simple answer to that, when they are shooting at you with live rounds do you think rubber is the correct rounds to use so that they can get up an attempt to shoot you again? It's very easy to talk, judge, complain and moan with light hand when it's not a about you! All your examples about the pilots, sergeons and what not are very shallow Adrian. Why didn't you use a real life example like the one of when a captain shouted at a robber "drop the gun" a few times and eventually he got killed because he didn't shoot the suspect, he did what you suggesting and he died even thou he would have been justified for using lethal force and this is the reality. With regards to the inconsiderate comments of they chose ther jobs I will tell you that not everyone is as fortunate as some of you to have a choice of a job, many people in this country will apply for any job as long as they can feed themselves and their families! So if you care so much open your eyes, open your mind, stop with the stupid comments, we've all got brains so use it!

The guys with the berets are special forces, the military was also called to the scene, all of that shows that crowd control unit was obviously not efficient and therefore they escalated it with brining in the army and special forces, bit no let's listen to some of the specialists here that think they know everything and they have it all figured out

With respect it is very easy to get lost in a minefield of preferent, emotive and rationalized statements that are very difficult to unpack.
That is why I have set out my post in point format.
You need to take each statement and say what it that you disagree with. That way we will know what is disputable.

**Nickolai Naydenov** · 20-Aug-12, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by vieome

Worst yet, the Goverment says they will not assist with state burials, how can they call it a national tragedy and refuse to assist?

Mac Maharaj said yesterday on 702 that the government is helping with funerals and money for their families, not sure where you got your "facts" from. Besides the government I'm not sure if you are aware but the unions where the miners a members have got provident funds which should pay their families and cover thir funerals however this is not done, on fact on Interace yesterday it became clear that there are member's families who haven't been paid for more than 8 years from the union's provident funds. Unions in SA are the mafia, they take monthly contributions from their members who have no clue what is going on, the government has made it compolsory for specific workers to be members of different unions and whomsuffers at the end? The hard working members who earn their daily bread honestly, yet there are millions of rands missing from these funds, hundreds of thousands of people are not paid or are crooked by the system that is good only for a few!
I'll give you a great example, I signed over a company's provident fund that belonged to an union, they were sick and tired of problems, accauntability issues, them not paying out and etc, it was a long process as the law states that every single person in the company has to sign a concent to move to another fund, after so much heard work, presentations and etc we were ready to go until the next day when the managing director of the company was threatened that if they continued with the change people will lose lives and the business will be at stand still!

**Nickolai Naydenov** · 20-Aug-12, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by vieome

The mob was not charging at the police, they were simply trying to get away from the tear gas. The police simply smoked them out, like smoking up a bee hive, and then calling the dizzy bees a threat. In the video you can clearly see a police man standing 6 feet away and firing at will, in no way was this policeman feeling threatend, this was a well planned masacre, they simply tear-gased them and forced them into a bottle neck between the two cars. Image belongs to reuters Attachment 2779

If that was such a peaceful process why did they strike illegally, why did they go to the sangomas to get muti that no bullets can kill them, why did policeman and security guards die??? What you are missing is that first the two policeman died before anybody else, how about the other 6 or 8 policeman that were injured, was that as a result of a peaceful protest and if this is not enough how about the security guards that died???

When you watch a video such as the ones here you should get the full footage and not what someone has cut and edited and then stop seeing what you want to see even thou this is human nature, but rather open your mind, try to understand what's really happening, stop with this eyes shut I know everything mentality!

**adrianh** · 20-Aug-12, 09:30 PM

Now how is it that the entire world has their eyes shut except you?

Do you astral travel by any chance?

**tec0** · 20-Aug-12, 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by adrianh

Now how is it that the entire world has their eyes shut except you?
Do you astral travel by any chance?

I think you are being unfair adrianh… I think you need to look at what is happening on the other side of the coin.

**adrianh** · 20-Aug-12, 10:48 PM

I don't think I'm being unfair, and anyway, there is no place for fair or unfair in this debate. A statement was made that some people have thier eyes closed so I can only assume that the people that made the statement have better vision than the rest of us.

stop with this eyes shut I know everything mentality!

ok, so you tell me what is on the other side of the coin; is it that we should simply accept mediocrity where those that are supposed to protect life simply lash out and shoot 34 people. No my friend, there is no other side to this coin, the police were in charge of the entire situation and the fffed it up. They created the situation by themselves and they shot their way out of the situation.

So you want me to say say 'ag shame, the poor policeman had to empty his entire R4 magazine because he got spooked by a sangoma brewing muti on th hill!'

**tec0** · 20-Aug-12, 11:11 PM

Originally Posted by adrianh

I don't think I'm being unfair, and anyway, there is no place for fair or unfair in this debate. A statement was made that some people have thier eyes closed so I can only assume that the people that made the statement have better vision than the rest of us.

ok, so you tell me what is on the other side of the coin; is it that we should simply accept mediocrity where those that are supposed to protect life simply lash out and shoot 34 people. No my friend, there is no other side to this coin, the police were in charge of the entire situation and the fffed it up. They created the situation by themselves and they shot their way out of the situation.

So you want me to say say 'ag shame, the poor policeman had to empty his entire R4 magazine because he got spooked by a sangoma brewing muti on th hill!'

I am sorry to say this adrianh but you tried to be provocative about this from the get go. I will keep my views for myself for now.

Your judgment is clouded...

**Nickolai Naydenov** · 21-Aug-12, 07:06 AM

ok, so you tell me what is on the other side of the coin; is it that we should simply accept mediocrity where those that are supposed to protect life simply lash out and shoot 34 people. No my friend, there is no other side to this coin, the police were in charge of the entire situation and the fffed it up. They created the situation by themselves and they shot their way out of the situation

Again you are so ignorant Adrian, you refuse to aknowledge the fact that there were 44 people killed which includes the policeman and security guards, according to you the other 10 people are irrelevant, you disgust me!