Intellectual rights

[adrianh]

A single idea on its own may mean nothing, but a collective base of ideas, including the single idea is what makes a success. The concept of sharing is what its all about.

Great, but if this is true then you should share your ideas with everybody and not force them to sign an NDA.

The idea that I want to go to the moon, may sound absurd, remember Jules Verne, as was the case years before, but it may have been the seed for the Apollo missions. No single idea made it possible.

One has to be careful not to confuse the issue. Nobody was forced to sign an NDA stating that they may not go to the moon because Johnny thought of the idea first.

Lets take an example here, what if I have an idea, but can not make it quite work, I come to you, and you add a widget and walla, its comes to fruition. Who does the idea belong too?
Me or to you?

Again, your widget may be something similar to an idea I have in my own head and my solution may be the basis for other ideas that I want to develop myself. This is exactly why I want to know whether your widget isn't something that has anything to do with my own ideas.

With out the collective ideas, it was not possible.

Agreed, but if one is to go opensource then you must go all the way. You can't force me to give up my rights to my ideas because you want to keep the rights to yours.

[adrianh]

My views stem from the fact that I have, and still do, designed many of my own products over time. Those products are truly diverse and I've had to solve many different problems myself. Many of the products, designs and ideas are applied to many different "widgets" using different technologies.

Let me illustrate how a single idea gets used across technologies. I am busy doing a 3D solid model of a particular train coach (The 3D model can be of anything, car, aeroplane, flower ice skate...). This model will be used to create a resin cast 1:87 scale model (a Brass etched model soon), a resin cast / cnc machined / laser cut 1:24 scale garden rail model, a 1:24 scale modlel made from MDF that a child can assemble, a 1:200 desktop resin cast model, a USB stick, as art to do a 3D relief CNC'd in wood, a mirror for a bar, coasters....etc. Within each of those technologies lies various techniques that are used across technologies and products. Now the thing is; if a customer came to me and said: "Please sign an NDA because I need a 3D model to make a MDF toy in 1:24" and I agree, then what about all the other products that, to me are simply a natural progression of having drawn the 3D model. The point that I am making is that I can, and I do make all those different products that stem from one 3D model, whereas the person who has the idea for that model, in my experience, doesn't have the foggiest idea that all those products can be made, let alone that I can make them using my own equipment within my own house.

I will add 3 technologies to my portfolio, white metal casting (lost wax and spin casting), vynil printing/auto cutting and rapid protoyping (using both Objet and Zcorp machines). Once I have those technologies then I am able to make practically any model, in any size, using the most suitable technology for the scale.

The list of technologies that I have at hand is quite long:
Laser cutting, cnc milling and routing, manual lathe work (just need to add the steppers), silicone mould making and casting in various resins and materials including foodstuffs, 3D modelling / 2D cad , electronics, Delphi programming, C and basic programming using Microchip Pics, a bit or Basic4Android programming, PCB design and art, brass etching, pad printing, decal printing, airbrushing, vynil cutting, and of course I have access to an absolutely brilliant graphic designer / sculptor... This is just off the top of my head. I am one of those peope who spend 20 hours a day developing products and making things (yes, I don't have a life in the usual way) but I sure as hell go to bed satisfied having created something every single day.

The thing is, I honestly don't mind helping people or sharing knowledge, I do mind other people trying to ringence my creativity.

[adrianh]

Those models are perfect examples of the use of different technologies and 100's of different ideas and solutions to problems. The thing is, those are only 2 of my current range of over 300. I know that I am off on a tangent about technologies, but what I am trying to illustrate is that I thrive on ideas and creating real, tangible things from those ideas.

[wynn]

I watched that movie on the guy who invented the intermittent windshield wiper, he used off the shelf products but it was the manner in which he connected them together that was the intellectual property that made him millions after a long court battle.

[adrianh]

Intellectual rights is such a difficult topic. I have simple idea that would make millions if it were to be manufacured on a very large scale and distributed by a large international supplier. The problem is that the damn things are so simple that if anybody saw them they could, and would do it themselves. How do you ensure that you make lots of money from such an idea - dunno. It's one of those things that just has to be done on a huge scale from the word go. Like the intermittent wiper, it could and would be used by lots and lots of people and it would end up being made by lots of companies. So I also have the NDA problem in that once I show anybody the product then they no longer need me because the idea is fully described by taking one look at the little product.

[Justloadit]

Part of an NDA says that any part of the discussion which can be shown as being available in the public domain is excluded.
There is also a time constraint in the NDA, and you can also insert a clause which says that if there is no business with the idea over a period of time, the NDA becomes invalid.

There are many ways of doing NDA's which caters for all the concerns that have been raised here.
If there were no NDAs many products would not have made it to market.

[Blurock]

An NDA has almost become standard practice when dealing with larger manufacturers or suppliers. The NDA protects BOTH parties and can be drafted in many different ways to address issues raised.

One does have to keep an open mind though as we can get silly and include things such as what if the sky falls on us...

I have dealt with a number of entities from software to injection moulding and contract manufacturing. In all cases the companies were very professional in their approach and some already had a standard NDA. They were also open to accepting a custom NDA from the proposer or the guy with the idea. The objective is not to0 be restrictive, but to protect the rights of both parties and then to find common ground to proceed with production.