WHEN DO WE SAY ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!

[Duncan]

The time has come for people to unite and fight the system.

In Jhb, Sanrail has impossed another form of taxation to the people of this county by installing toll roads all around the major highways of Jhb.
There was once a time the taxation for road repairs, maintenance and new roads formed part of the cost of fuel. Gov justified the taxation on petrol through this excuse. In fairness, we did have decent roads, and new roads built, would be tolled, like the N3 from Jhb to Dbn.

Now the extra cost to the pvt individual running from Pretoria to Sandton would be in the region of R1500.00 per month. Needless to say this is on roads that where originally bought and paid for by fuel taxes. Ok, so they are upgrading the roads! WOW!

Lets look at thge impact on business using these roads on a permanent basis for their deliveries, sales people etc. What is the roll on effect of this for our small economy in South Africa. Do you think it will be R1500.00 per vehicle, or maybe R15000.00 per vehicle. Hell, i could use the R15000.00 per vehicle.

As a result everything will increase in price, from basic foods stuffs like bread and milk to luxary items. We are already been strong armed into pasying higher wagers by the unions strikes which puts additional prressure on the business 's of this country.

So we down to the business being the one who will carry the larget portion of this taxation.

I started this business of mine 9 months ago. I am still not drawing a proper salary and everytime i try to move forward there is someone else waiting to take it away, legally, and stifle my ability to move forward. But yet we will not attain employment growth predictions if the small business owner cannot move forward.

I now hear that Cape Town is meetying with Sanrail this week to discuss tolling of the roads around Cape Town. Have they seen our road, we actually have decent roads here and virtually no pot holes etc.

So it wont be long and then it will be Dbn then PE, EL, Bloem and when does it stop.

A long time ago i asked the postmaster about a 50% increase in the cost of the post box. It really was an insignificant amount when i look back on it, but it was the principle behind it. His answer was toy toy.

It is time we, the South African business owner changed the rules of engagment and unite against the financial raping of our hard earned money and stifling the ability for the few that actually have the ability to make this a better country.

Why can we not go on strike,. We want better pay, less taxes, more rewards. Can you imagine if the business owners decided that for one month we will all take our leave at the same time, call it a strike, shut the doors, stop paying the people and imagine after 30 days how much food would be on the pantry shelf. You wouldnt have petrtol, you would have taxes for 30 days, you wouldnt have stress.

While i can dream of this the reality is if we dont, and we keep sitting back and accepting the pilferage of the countries resources through legal means we will never get the system to change.

The business's in this country, account for the biggest tax injection into this economy and we actually hold the strength. Unionise the business owners and we too can have a forum and system that can apply the pressure in the right areas to effect change.

[Dave A]

Latest number I've seen for the toll rate is 30c per km. Putting that in perspective fuel cost probably runs at about 90c per km...

What percentage of the fuel price goes to taxes?

[murdock]

bottom line...people need to suffer to make them get out of their comfort zone and do anything...we are not suffering enough...it is too easy to get more and more credit...then cry when we can no longer afford to live because for a lot of us we are already living beyond our means...and the finance houses are loving us...how many people can honestly say they dont have a cedit card or an overdraft...i am sure there are a few with out debit but i am sure the majority are in debit...i am one of those in debit more than i can handle at the moment...even though i have more assest than i owe in debit...i have a serious cash flow problem.

[Duncan]

Maybe we are all working for ther bank and the reciever. Who owens the bank and who owns the reciever.
Makes me think we are all just puppets of someones master plan.
At least if i go down i am taking the bank with me,
You know what they say, in for a penny, in for a pound. Damn i am in for the entire building.

Dave, amount agreed on 48c per km if you have eToll and 100 cents if not for normal vehicles, 100 cents for trucks with and 200 cents without.
Taxi's go free. Why, cause they toytoy?

[tec0]

Taxi's go free. Why, cause they toytoy?

Why not do exactly what you stated business must do. Go on strike? Perhaps "if" businesses form a union, and stop producing good for only 14 days and you will have mass hysteria but it will not do the trick.

Consider this: just register a union for businesses get a good advocate and register a complaint at SARS then put your tax money in a bank "don't touch it but allow it to earn interest. And stop paying the money to SARS until they investigate fair business principals and the like and give you feedback and solutions. If you are happy with their suggestions. You can pay them.

Do this lawfully and know the "can" and the "cannot" and use the laws available to you.

[adrianh]

@murdock - you have an interesting point. I would love to know how much tax is indirectly paid on credit. If I look at my own situation, just like yours, I think that it would be a hell of a lot. I am to doff to figure out the implications but it is interesting to think about it - I loan money from the bank at interest to pay tax to the government. Isn't there something fundamentally wrong with this picture. Could it be, again, exactly as murdock puts it, the crap hits the fan when we (te taxpayer - in whatever form) runs out of credit.

[Dave A]

Taxi's go free. Why, cause they toytoy?

I didn't know that - and a really good point. I've often felt that government has a knack for rewarding bad behaviour - and this time it looks like they've done a really good job of it.

I'm sure no government official will admit this, but is there any doubt that taxis go free because government knew there would be serious trouble? Of course, government will spin some yarn about encouraging the use of public transport, but are there any other tolls giving taxis a free pass?

So what are they telling us - we won't listen until the blockades are up and the tyres are burning? Pretty sad state of affairs if that's the case.

[tec0]

I cannot actually recall the taxi's ever losing in any standing/argument and or demand. Perhaps if a union of companies, organisations and businesses emerges a change can come about. After all Taxation, licensing and municipality charges can no longer pay for anything or so it seems.

Secondly we must question the reliability of public transport because our safety cannot be guaranteed. Not to mention that outsourcing ALL transport to Taxi's would be irresponsible because they will directly control the South African workforce and the economy. For example: if the taxi's strike then production stops because nobody would be able to get to work and or back.

The truth is, it would be irresponsible for businesses to outsource all transport to public transport systems only. It would also be irresponsible to allow this "toll" system to continue and grow because the working public is already being hammered with all kinds of taxes, licensing and the like.

The real question is; are companies willing, competent enough to change the statuesque?

After all there is suppose be job creation in the end of the day? With both the commercial and industrial sections are being taxed and billed to death how can there be job creation?

[murdock]

off the topic

[Dave A]

After all there is suppose be job creation in the end of the day? With both the commercial and industrial sections are being taxed and billed to death how can there be job creation?

Amen.

ps - May I also add "regulated" (to death).

[tec0]

"Regulations" is a major player when it comes to instability not to mention bylaws and perhaps more importantly penalties. Everyone running a business knows there is no longer a sustainable free market system AND that said investors are packing their bags because regulations came to the point where they can no longer function.

It has also come to my attention that we are heavy importers of plastics and cheep electronics. Now these industries may look complicated at first but if you break it down it is really just another fabrication process.

South Africans are able to produce high end electronics. Plastic ware if anything we need to get rid of it because glass as a packaging material simply works better. So why are we importing almost ALL our electronics and why are we not using glass for the soft drink market? And yes it is a massif industry!

If you break it down South Africa is silicone rich and of the highest quality, so we can produce semiconductors and the like easily. Glass as packaging would be a big plus because it is sustainable; you can have 3 systems for example Glass makers, Recycling plants and a Reclaiming system.

Each of those 3 systems can create new jobs more importantly sustainable jobs. Thus effort is well worth the infrastructure. If we can get the soft drink producers to use glass only packaging it is a start. Once the system is started other companies can then utilize it for their individual needs.

So how can all of this be started? With a business related union. An entity so powerful that it can manipulate importing getting it down to the minimum and allow for local development programs to take effect. With a business union emplace regulations can be strong-armed to the point where both industrial and commercial industries can again function.

In my opinion it is worth a try.

[Newretailer]

I like the idea of a union for businesses.

I saw a friend of mine yesterday who moved back to Japan 7 years ago. She said that she could not believe how expensive it has become to live in South Africa compared to 7 years ago. Housing, electricity, food, transport, everything has become very expensive.

We are being milked for all we have, but the powers to be don't realise that the cow is just about dried up.

[SilverNodashi]

I like the idea of a union for businesses.

I saw a friend of mine yesterday who moved back to Japan 7 years ago. She said that she could not believe how expensive it has become to live in South Africa compared to 7 years ago. Housing, electricity, food, transport, everything has become very expensive.

We are being milked for all we have, but the powers to be don't realise that the cow is just about dried up.

Then you should try Germany or most of the other larger European countries. South Africa is still "cheap" compared to the countries we want to compare ourselves with.

[wynn]

The late George Carlin had the right idea

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgps85scy1g

[Dave A]

Then you should try Germany or most of the other larger European countries. South Africa is still "cheap" compared to the countries we want to compare ourselves with.

I don't know too much about pricing in Germany, but I've had reasonable exposure to typical prices in the UK and USA. And I suggest it depends what you're buying. You also need to factor in the average income.

When it comes to wheels, we're expensive compared to both the UK and the USA.
Fuel - UK is far more expensive than us, but the USA is far cheaper.
Tech stuff - we're getting ripped off. Not nearly as badly as it used to be, but yeah - mostly cheaper in the UK and USA.

Food - pricing depends what you're buying, perhaps - but on a quality level, a lot of what I see on our shelves would be rejected in the USA or UK. In fact, when I travel overseas that's probably the toughest thing for me to readjust to when I get back - the fact that "good" shops will leave such shocking quality "fresh" foodstuff on their shelves and expect people to buy it.

The only thing of substance I can think of that is really cheap here compared to there is property. But then our high interest rate screws that one up from an affordability point of view.